What I Heard from Trump Supporters • Hacker News Board

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#161

Post by camdenlock » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:06 PM UTC

dmode wrote: post #87

I understand all the sentiment, but one thing that Trump supporters haven't done is send him a message that they don't agree with his extreme views and his constant undermining of democratic societies. For example, there are a number of "one issue" voters for Trump - one individual only cares about abortion and another hates PC so much that voting for Trump was important. But with that decision, you are also validati…

> I would much rather have an excess of PC rather than being yelled racist epithets on my face

Both are extreme and unproductive behaviors. One side screams racist epithets at you, the other screams accusations of racism at you. Neither helps. Only sincere and rational conversation helps.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#162

Post by notabouthacking » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:07 PM UTC

“The left is more intolerant than the right.”

and

“Stop calling us racists. Stop calling us idiots. We aren’t. Listen to us when we try to tell you why we aren’t. Oh, and stop making fun of us.”

This is after many have said things like "He is anti-immigration", "He will preserve our culture", "He is anti-abortion". If you believe these things, then yes your are racist. If you believe these things, then yes you are for the patriarchy. You might not realize you are xenophobic, racist, and sexist, but that doesn't mean you aren't. There is no rational argument for those things and we have to stop pretending that hate is up for debate.

The left in no way should back down from calling them for what they are.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#163

Post by badsock » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:07 PM UTC

Trump got less votes than Romney.

Republicans are always going to vote Republican - the major issues are essentially irreconcilable. The Democrats don't need to listen to them, they need to field better candidates so that the left gets out and votes.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#164

Post by darkmouth » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:07 PM UTC

benbenolson wrote: post #156

darkmouth wrote: post #108

We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. If you deny science, basic human rights, if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries, if you feel you're entitled to things others are not, then yes, I can proudly say silicon valley as well as other liberal enclaves are very unwelcoming to such people. Lastly, we do not, and will not welcome anyone who elects a man like trump just to…

This is exactly what the current top comment (by shklnrj) is talking about, and is one of the major reasons that Trump got elected. darkmouth here is doubling down on the exact same strategy that lead many away from liberalism this election cycle.

and you're suggesting we shut up and keep quiet when we KNOW we are RIGHT? That is not going to happen. Submitting to tantrums only makes those people get stronger.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#165

Post by tommynicholas » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:07 PM UTC

I found this extremely interesting but one thing I think is important to remember: it's possible that Republicans will take down Trump in 2020 (or sooner), but it's more likely that non-Republicans will. Mobilizing and organizing support among the left and independents would be more than enough to win a Presidential or any other election in the US outside of DEEPLY Republican areas.

Looking forward opportunities to win over tepid Trump supporters is one strategy, but don't let anyone convince you it's the only strategy (or even the best one).

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#166

Post by pklausler » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:07 PM UTC

Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

If your "ideas" are in conflict with facts, get better ideas.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#167

Post by subpixel » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:07 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #70

shklnrj wrote: post #5

I think that when people "KNOW" that they are "RIGHT", it sometimes brings moral superiority into people. That, in addition to norms of socially acceptable behaviour, pushes people into a corner. For example - If someone goes to Bill Maher's show, anyone clapping on a conservative view point is seen as a criminal, while people with liberal point of view clap "together" as a group, with the smug arrogance of knowing t…

On the other hand, there's some dangerous censorship happening in the public school system and in the business world and in government, and I think a lot of Trump supporters recognize this and are worried about it.

I presume you are referring to states that omit or downplay evolution in history textbooks.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#168

Post by sxcurry » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:07 PM UTC

Yhippa wrote: post #89

sxcurry wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that the contrarian views frequently turn out to be lies, and I can't spend all my time debating lies. Please suggest a contrarian view that's worth discussing.

> Except that the contrarian views frequently turn out to be lies What do you mean by this?

Evolution, vaccination, global warming, coal, etc, etc

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#169

Post by FeepingCreature » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:08 PM UTC

orbitur wrote: post #92

gedy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I read a casually racist opinion from a red tribe member or hear another xenophobic policy proposed by Trump and swing right back to a. I understand and respect that - but my friends who do that seem to also turn a blind eye to riots and beatings from folks "the left". There just seems to be a lot of double standards with saying fringe wackos on one side represent the entire group, but not the the side.

> but my friends who do that seem to also turn a blind eye to riots and beatings from folks "the left" Yes, those "left" beatings get zero widespread cultural support. Violence is not glorified by any prominent voices on the left. Whereas racist and sexist voices on the right make a boatload of money and fill up the comments of every news article posted to Facebook. It's cultural.

As a person on the left, when you look at the left you see your bubble. That is, you see the people you are already agreeing with, the nice people. However, when you look at the right, you see the controversy; the things most visible in the mainstream are the ones that are most talked about, are the loudest and most divisive ones. Your point of view is not symmetrical.

I suspect the right-leaning people in this thread would say the same thing in reverse.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#170

Post by harryh » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:08 PM UTC

runako wrote: post #125

harryh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on how you say it. "You're racist!" is an attack. "That thing you just said was racist." is better but will still come off as an attack. "Have you ever thought about how what you said will impact [minority group]?" will work much better.

> "Have you ever thought about how what you said will impact [minority group]?" will work much better. To summarize: PC phrasing works better among people who voted for the anti-PC guy? I'm not disagreeing with your thesis, just pointing out that it's not obvious that it should be the case.

Polite phrasing that doesn't immediately condemn the subject but instead tries to get them to slowly consider alternative points of view works better with almost all people.