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On Loneliness

krishnamurti-teachings.info

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Re: On Loneliness

#161

Post by ZenoArrow »

blueprint wrote: post #156
ZenoArrow wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"You probably just missed it, but I certainly did define it concretely" Is this the definition you're referring to? >"Love is blessing. Blessings are that which enable or cause a good result for something or for it to change for the better." Has this view of 'love is blessing' changed your life? What has it helped you with?

Yes, that's correct. Excellent questions. If you want to understand the definition of love correctly you need to learn conscience and justice first of all. Conscience is the way to brighten one's mind, and justice is the way to brighten our world. Is there any greater blessing than living with a bright mind in a bright world ?

Okay, let's say I'd like to learn about justice, what is it that one needs to learn about justice?

Re: On Loneliness

#163

Post by jonstewart »

problems wrote: post #82

How does "spiritual" junk like this get on the hackernews front page? Does a substantial portion of the readership follow woo like this? I think it's time to do some bayesian filtering or something.

I also find it peculiar. It is about as far away from my daily hard-headed software development experience as anything could be.

Re: On Loneliness

#164

Post by blueprint »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #161
blueprint wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's correct. Excellent questions. If you want to understand the definition of love correctly you need to learn conscience and justice first of all. Conscience is the way to brighten one's mind, and justice is the way to brighten our world. Is there any greater blessing than living with a bright mind in a bright world ?

Okay, let's say I'd like to learn about justice, what is it that one needs to learn about justice?

Like in math, answers are made by problems/questions. Literally cannot get a certain solution without correctly understanding the problem. So, the quality of answers depends on the quality of questions. The more accurately, precisely, and realistically you can point out what you want to know the more specifically an enlightened being would be able to answer you. Please note this is my answer to the specific question you asked. If you want to know the definition of justice, its function, how it can be practiced or generated, etc., I'll need to know what you have in mind.

Re: On Loneliness

#165

Post by blueprint »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #160
blueprint wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love is not incompatible with connectedness. The very way of the world is love. So people who are alive cannot exactly not be "unified". But people do what I described because they have different destinies than you. It takes them a long time to come to know facts because they can't understand or accept what you had to open your mouth to tell them right off the bat. The reason is that we, who are ordinary people who a…

>"But people only take exactly what they are ready to take even from a perfect teaching." I agree that to be prepared for an idea makes someone more receptive to it. I find the same thing with creative thinking as a whole. When I've taken the time to reflect on an puzzle, I'm more receptive to a solution. Regarding the other points you raised about love, another question... Is sincerity important for true love? Or to…

> Is sincerity important for true love? Or to put it another way, can illusory actions be conducted in a loving way?

Please ask me this question again in a little while after we've come to know each other better.

Re: On Loneliness

#166

Post by orasis »

eternalban wrote: post #48
orasis wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mind of a motivated seeker tends to be tormented. Perhaps melancholic doubt is a significant brain chemistry upgrade.

Seeker, sure. Guru, no. [p.s.] The Sufi master Attar [1] wrote an entire book [2] -- using the symbol of "flyers" or "birds" -- describing the stages of seekers' path to enlightenment. The mataphor used was 'seven valleys of love' [3] encountered on the way to the 'King of the Birds', each with their own distinct psyho-spiritual state and requirements. The journey has stages but for some there is a 'successful' end.…

An alternative perspective is that "meta-okayness" might be a goal to aim for. Can I be fundamentally OK even when I don't feel OK? Could I be OK with depression? Could I be OK with sadness? Could I be OK with being human?

Maybe instead of needing to be more enlightened, I just need a nap?

Re: On Loneliness

#167

Post by eagletusk »

contingencies wrote: post #147
ZenoArrow wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the sense that a rock remains a rock, and a human remains a human. Does the direct answer gets someone to the truth just as easily as speaking in riddles?

I believe only Chinese Chan (which evolved in to Japanese Zen , and similar Korean and Vietnamese traditions) uses the dramatic "mental conundrum provides sudden enlightenment" approach. The rest of Buddhism apparently generally considers needlessly verbose or obtuse speech to be unskilled and counter to progress. Indeed, it could be argued that speech - with some exceptions - is generally discouraged.

Indeed, it could be argued that speech - with some exceptions - is generally discouraged.

This is inline with the absolution of the self... If Buddhism believes that the self doesn't exist it's hard to use language that directly engages with the idea of self (subject).

Re: On Loneliness

#169

Post by Retra »

dean wrote: post #63
antisocial wrote: post #37

The following is a gem - this has been my guiding star for more than a decade. The self hides in many ways, under every stone, the self can hide in compassion, going to India and looking after poor people, because the self is attached to some idea, faith, conclusion, belief, which makes me compassionate because I love Jesus or Krishna, and I go up to heaven. The self has many masks, the mask of meditation, the mask o…

So...everything you do, no matter how selfless, is actually selfish if you look closely enough?

The problem with this line of reasoning is that there is really no reason why "self" must refer to an individual. Who you are realistically intersects with many things on many scales - life, culture, family, individual. They are all your "self" in some sense, and service at any scale will be selfish in such a sense.

Re: On Loneliness

#170

Post by tech_browser »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #148
tech_browser wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no need. Note that every person has a different conditioning of the mind and not everyone reacts in the same manner to a philosophical statement. Consider several pieces of firewood, each with a varying degree of dryness. Each of them will react differently when ignited with a spark. The process of understanding the Self requires a teacher, at least in the beginning stages. There are exceptions to the norm,…

>"The process of understanding the Self requires a teacher, at least in the beginning stages." My question is, why? What does the student gain from this when the path is one of self-study?

How else would a person learn or hear about the Self? It is not a solid thing that can be perceived by the senses. Neither is it as abstract as nothingness. It is one's real nature and the source of the notion "I am". Further, it is that which makes it possible for the mind and senses to function.

You may argue that all this information can be gleaned by reading a book. At best, this will remain in the realm of theoretical knowledge. Only a person who has treaded along this path can offer some insights into what the Self is and how it may be realized. If you don't like to label this person as a teacher/preceptor, feel free to give him any other name you like.

To tell a person that he's the body and mind requires no knowledge. Further, such ignorance is well established in every individual. The knowledge of the Self is something a person has to discover after being introduced to it via some medium.

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