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Welcome Chris Lattner

tesla.com

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Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#161

Post by naaaaak »

Apple has a car project. Autopilot must be one of its core features. But Apple would not create a VP-level position for Autopilot or any one feature for any of their products (even if they it called something else for secrecy/generalization reasons).

This move increases his compensation and clout. Post-Tesla, he'll only have VP or founder titles elsewhere, never anything lower-level (unless he gets his old job back). The change must be welcoming, too.

That Apple could not retain him speaks volumes of the company they've become. They're a conglomerate at the intersection of tech and fashion. Groundbreaking engineering is not always given its proper due (or compensation) because there's only so many seats at the table. They've become rigidly corporate and not particularly inspiring.

Good luck to him, and good job taking a chance. Working for someone with a vision other than "thin" must be a welcoming change.

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#162

Post by abalone »

devsquid wrote: post #153
webjprgm wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I would say Swift is the kind of robust that is needed for safety critical software, but it is a nice step forward for application code. It mostly forces you to deal with things safely while still allowing Objective-C dynamic behaviors when you need to get around the restrictions (often to interact with other Obj-C code). So, yes I can see why one would call Lattner at the forefront of making more reliab…

Sure Lattner and Musk are interesting people, but I find the level of hero worship in the tech industry to be sickening. Having used compilers for a few new languages (Rust, Go, Dart, Kotlin, Swift). Swift is the only one I've had any issues with as well as Swift seems to be the only language to have adopted the "move fast and break things" philosophy of Silicon Valley. I dunno, I just don't see the argument.

You're confusing language development with autonomous vehicle development. Think of the long term goal. It's desirable to move fast and fix things with language development in the near term, to achieve a more perfect design and accelerate its maturation at the temporary cost of more volatility. After this process achieves a high level of maturity, said design principles may offer a safer, more reliable programming system that would be better suited to safety-critical applications.

Additionally I'm sure we can all agree there is no substitute for maturation through time and usage in the field. Which frankly is an argument for more popular languages over obscure ones. None of the ones you mentioned are ready for safety-critical system development (including Swift 3), but which one is most likely to achieve widespread adoption and field testing in the long run?

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#163

Post by yellowbeard »

Steko wrote: post #156
mrkd wrote: post #32

Elon Musk is the new Steve Jobs. He is an inspirational leader and talented people want to work with him. It appears it will be harder and harder to attract and keep talent at Apple with out a leader like Steve Jobs.

> He is an inspirational leader and talented people want to work with him. This is a convenient narrative when Tesla makes a high profile hire but they've also lost a lot of talented engineers and I don't remember the convention wisdom being that it was because of Elon's shortcomings.

Who left and why?

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#164

Post by noobermin »

freyir wrote: post #116
abalone wrote: post #70

What's really interesting about this is not just that Lattner is brilliant and liked, but that is highlights just how critical software correctness and reliability is to autonomous vehicles. Naively one might have expected some machine learning expert to take over the reins at Tesla. But fast-moving Silicon Valley needs a fundamental shift in quality standards when it comes to safety-critical software, and if you loo…

Swift, XCode, and Apple software in general don't scream reliability to me. No doubt Lattner is a smart guy, but I'd be more comfortable with a smart guy from NASA or somewhere similar with experience developing survival-critical software systems.

This is my feeling too. Yes, I'm a scientist, so I'm from that side of the pond, but does it make sense to hire a developer type for engineering where lives could be at stake?

Not that dev'ing should rise to that level, but it isn't the typical level most developers work at. Also, if he is more of a "software correctness and reliability" guy as abalone says he is, then yes, that is the right direction.

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#165

Post by freshyill »

devy wrote: post #30
freshyill wrote: post #7

Well, mystery solved. Now, the new mystery: What does this mean for Apple's car project? Yes, I realize he probably didn't have much (or anything) to do with it (whatever it really even is). There are going to be some batshit crazy theories though, and I can't wait to see how this affects Apple's stock price.

> Well, mystery solved. That was a short mystery! :)

The best kind!

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#166

Post by jlarocco »

coldtea wrote: post #79
jlarocco wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reading comprehension on HN is pretty bad lately. OP didn't say Lattner had anything to do with those examples. The point is that Apple's been dropping the ball a lot lately. Lattner leaving is either another example of that (why didn't they make him a better offer to keep him?) or a consequence of it (what smart person wants to work for a company that's constantly screwing up?).

> The point is that Apple's been dropping the ball a lot lately. They might, but the examples for that are bad themselves: > Macbook with less ports Which has always been something Apple pushed for. Dropping deprecated ports early (to complains) and adopting new ones. Few doubt USB-C is the future, even if they complain about the dongles. > copy&paste iPhone with no originality The iPhone, like the iPod before it, ha…

My counterpoint is the simple fact that we're even discussing this. Apple products used to "just work," and now they're a mess.

I've never considered myself a diehard Apple fan, but over the years I've spent thousands and thousands of dollars on Apple products. From a 1 Gb iPad shuffle all the way up to a Retina MBP, and quite a few things in between. I don't need to argue if Apple is going down hill because I'm seeing it first hand while using their products, or, more often lately, choosing not to use their products.

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#167

Post by devsquid »

abalone wrote: post #162
devsquid wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure Lattner and Musk are interesting people, but I find the level of hero worship in the tech industry to be sickening. Having used compilers for a few new languages (Rust, Go, Dart, Kotlin, Swift). Swift is the only one I've had any issues with as well as Swift seems to be the only language to have adopted the "move fast and break things" philosophy of Silicon Valley. I dunno, I just don't see the argument.

You're confusing language development with autonomous vehicle development. Think of the long term goal. It's desirable to move fast and fix things with language development in the near term, to achieve a more perfect design and accelerate its maturation at the temporary cost of more volatility. After this process achieves a high level of maturity, said design principles may offer a safer, more reliable programming sy…

No I'm not confusing them. I'm responding directly to the comment that Chris lattner represents a more measured approach to software development than is tradition in the tech industry.

I don't think Swift stands to gain wide spread traction outside of Apple orientated app development. Aside from a lack of stability, Apple is to well known for boxing its competitors out. I've used and loved their products my entire life and I know how annoying it is to go against Apple's grain.

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#168

Post by beachy »

alwillis wrote: post #148
jksmith wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you mention that. Apple will crash if they don't get a serious personality cult back in there. Even that probably won't save them. Plus Musk is not the same brilliant, simple communicator that Jobs was.

Apple has done more than okay since Tim Cook took over as CEO: https://qz.com/765360/the-first-five-years-of-tim-cooks-reig...

So did Microsoft when Ballmer took over from Gates. Until suddenly they didn't any more.

https://steveblank.com/2016/10/24/why-tim-cook-is-steve-ball...

> If you think the job of a CEO is to increase sales, then Ballmer did a spectacular job. He tripled Microsoft’s sales to $78 billion and profits more than doubled from $9 billion to $22 billion. The launch of the Xbox and Kinect, and the acquisitions of Skype and Yammer happened on his shift. If the Microsoft board was managing for quarter to quarter or even year to year revenue growth, Ballmer was as good as it gets as a CEO. But if the purpose of the company is long-term survival, then one could make a much better argument that he was a failure as a CEO as he optimized short-term gains by squandering long-term opportunities.

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#169

Post by xigency »

n00b101 wrote: post #15

Chris Lattner : Tesla :: Bjarne Stroustrup : Morgan Stanley [1] [1] http://www.morganstanley.com/profiles/bjarne-stroustrup-mana...

You know, Google seems to attract a lot influential technologists that don't necessarily have a role in their organization. I guess it makes sense that other companies do this as well.

Re: Welcome Chris Lattner

#170

Post by solidsnack9000 »

devsquid wrote: post #110
abalone wrote: post #70

What's really interesting about this is not just that Lattner is brilliant and liked, but that is highlights just how critical software correctness and reliability is to autonomous vehicles. Naively one might have expected some machine learning expert to take over the reins at Tesla. But fast-moving Silicon Valley needs a fundamental shift in quality standards when it comes to safety-critical software, and if you loo…

ARC is a whole debate, but the one thing it is not is simple and I would argue its more error prone than a traditional GC. I've used it for most of my career and I have seen what sloppy/unaware coding can do to it. Lattner is a well known expert on compilers. Having used Swift since its inception, I would call into question the reliability of the Swift LLVM compiler. In its current state (3.0.2) its absolutely terrib…

The right comparison for ARC is with manual memory management -- not GC.
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