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China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

bbc.com

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Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#161

Post by pixelbill »

adamnemecek wrote: post #154
pixelbill wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You obviously didn't do any research into the subject you are talking about, or are just ignoring it, so let me inform you. You know what's even more messed up than killing an animal? Humans suffering and dying due to extreme poverty. Rich hunters come to these countries with lots of money that they pay to the locals and government in order to hunt these animals. The locals then use that money to help conservation ef…

> You obviously didn't do any research into the subject you are talking about, or are just ignoring it, so let me inform you. Can you provide some research?

Sure.

http://www.africanwildlifeconservationfund.org/wp-content/up...

Trophy hunting alone brings in over $200 million USD a year to Africa's economy.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#163

Post by Havoc »

DoodleBuggy wrote: post #19

They need to go further and ban any and all exotic animal trade for the quackery medicine and delicacy markets.

Difficult for politicians to implement a policy that a big part of their voter base doesn't want. Sucks but that's the reality.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#164

Post by Cyph0n »

pixelbill wrote: post #158
Cyph0n wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whales are endangered. Sharks are killed solely for their fins. Same goes for elephants and their tusks. Cows and pigs are killed humanely, and used efficiently, with a clear goal in mind: feeding humans. I'm disgusted by shark fin soup because of wastefulness. Why kill a living being if you're just going to use an insignificant part of it? We can argue about this all day, but in the end, it's all relative. Until we…

Whales are not endangered. Some types of whales are endangered. In fact, most Humpback species were removed from the endangered list. http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/07/492976575/... Good for you that you're disgusted by someone else's culture, I'm sure they feel the same way about you. I am just sick of the hypocrisy that so many people show. Ever kill a mouse in a mouse trap? That's a life gone for n…

My bad regarding whales then. But still, I believe whalers don't "use" the whole whale, right? It used to be blubber, not sure what it is now.

Dude, living in this beautiful and multi-cultural world is a great blessing, but you have to offend someone's culture eventually. There is simply no way to satisfy everyone, which is why this whole PC movement is silly imo.

Yes, that's basically it: you may think no animals should be killed, while I think that some should be killed. But the "winner" is the one who convinces the most people by providing the most compelling arguments.

As it stands, the majority agrees that cows and pigs must die to feed humans. They also agree that sharks should not be killed for their fins, elephants should not be killed for their tusks, etc.

Now, we may end up being wrong about cows and pigs (unlikely, given history and research), but this will appear over time rather than overnight.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#165

Post by adamnemecek »

pixelbill wrote: post #161
adamnemecek wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You obviously didn't do any research into the subject you are talking about, or are just ignoring it, so let me inform you. Can you provide some research?

Sure. http://www.africanwildlifeconservationfund.org/wp-content/up... Trophy hunting alone brings in over $200 million USD a year to Africa's economy.

So what's your takeaway form the paper?

$200M isn't much on a continental scale. Also where exactly is this money going?

"New legislation is also required to tackle some problems associated with trophy hunting. For example, ownership of wildlife should be devolved to communities to permit direct receipt of benefits from hunting and thus create clear incentives for sustainable wildlife management"

Yeah, that will be easy to pull off, I'm certain of that.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#166

Post by SpikeDad »

acomjean wrote: post #89
thinkloop wrote: post #80

There have been quite a few downvotes for suggesting that illegalization may not be the best remedy. What are people's thoughts on something like: https://youtu.be/YUA8i5S0YMU tldw: Controlled trophy hunting big game is one of the most effective ways (sadly) of protecting the hunted animals.

Gernerally I think environmentalist and hunters have the same objective, conserve a species. When I was in Africa, it was pointed out that the "game hunters" get to bring back a trophy, and that trophy containing ivory often never makes it back, going into the black market. Keeping a steady lower bound on the supply for those making a living in smuggling, and enabling poaching elsewhere. I have no answers to this pro…

Well of course for entirely different reasons. I personally am not in favor of facilitating the human blood lust to kill in order to save a species.

Humans can easily facilitate good conservation without requiring it to be attached to the killing of animals for sport.

I think it's valuable just for the reason that it's from a unique and special animal. And the market is supported by China via corrupt government officials and organized crime.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#167

Post by SpikeDad »

Coincidentally I watched a new documentary last night on Netflix named "The Ivory Game" (https://www.netflix.com/browse?jbv=80117533&jbp=0&jbr=6)

Heartbreaking documentary on the massive killing of elephants for ivory and how futile all of the efforts the African nations are taking to try to stop poaching and killing by local farmers.

Investigative segments include a Chinese journalist undercover with WildLeak talking to the Chinese criminals involved in the massive illegal ivory trade.

I hope this was instrumental in getting the Chinese govt to actually set a ban date for ivory. Currently their regulation are so lax and so corrupt that it's easy for the "legal" ivory dealer to launder illegal ivory in order to sell millions of dollars worth every day.

Did you know over 1000 Kenyan and other African game rangers have been kill in the protection of elephants by poachers. Terrible.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#168

Post by dang »

adamnemecek wrote: post #47

> I think people on HN perceive hunting or ivory trading as something bad such as human trafficking. It isn't. They both involve exploitation and suffering of intelligent and sentient being for selfish reasons. > My great-grandfather was an Ivory trader Your grandfather was a scum and no amount of mental gymnastics will change that. > With increasing government regulation and heavy handed attitude of regulators the e…

I respect how passionately you feel about this topic (and share some of the same feeling), but obviously "Your grandfather was a scum" (a) is completely off limits here, and (b) helps nothing and persuades nobody. Since you care deeply about your cause, you shouldn't undermine it by venting like that. In any case, please don't do so on HN.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13287741 and marked it off-topic.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#169

Post by matthewmarkus »

ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #160
matthewmarkus wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling public awareness campaigns "extremely effective" is a vast simplification of the matter. Public awareness campaigns are good at pushing a substance towards being banned. Once a substance is prohibited, it is subject to the "forbidden fruit" effect, which I've mentioned below [1]. Additionally, if public awareness campaigns continue under a ban, they're likely to induce a "boomerang" effect. For instance, the…

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/tables/trends/ci...

Yes, and? Smoking has never been outlawed; although, many have tried. I applaud demand reduction in lieu of prohibition. Once prohibition is in place, look out!

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#170

Post by pixelbill »

adamnemecek wrote: post #165
pixelbill wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. http://www.africanwildlifeconservationfund.org/wp-content/up... Trophy hunting alone brings in over $200 million USD a year to Africa's economy.

So what's your takeaway form the paper? $200M isn't much on a continental scale. Also where exactly is this money going? "New legislation is also required to tackle some problems associated with trophy hunting. For example, ownership of wildlife should be devolved to communities to permit direct receipt of benefits from hunting and thus create clear incentives for sustainable wildlife management" Yeah, that will be e…

The GDP of the entire content of Africa is $2.39 trillion, just the USA alone has a GDP 7x their entire content. It would be roughly equivalent to bringing in $1.4 billion into the US economy.

Do you have any actual evidence to add to your argument? Or just more ignorant sarcasm?

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