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Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

theguardian.com

161–170 of 190 posts

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lest we end up with putting GPS trackers and video recording devices on each and every person. ....phones?

That's at least voluntary. For now...

"Voluntary" is easy to say, but the environment heavily suggests certain choices. A (mobile) phone is these days used or needed for authentication: banking, email, real time communication and social media. Having to forgo those things is not without drawbacks.

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the exact thing we have to fight against because it leads to class based systems. Those who use cloud computing are innocent and those who don't are presumably hiding something. This is the why we have constitutional rights, to avoid such broad generalizations. Everyone has the right to privacy, regardless of what utilities or Hobbies they have.

Everyone has a right to prevention of unreasonable search and seizure. It's still up in the air whether going to a third-party to whom you've voluntarily given a bunch of information about yourself and asking that third-party to render that information is "unreasonable." It's pretty simple to make a case that it isn't. To wit: there's plenty of legal precedent for compelling a witness to testify against someone; are…

Taking an oath/pledge of confidentiality would be interesting business strategy on privacy, especially if it could be used to defend against claims from authorities.

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#163
How is this any different from a bank refusing to release financial records, or a phone company refusing to release phone records? These both happen all the time in criminal investigations, and I don't see a ton of recommendations to stay away from banks and homes here on HN...

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my POV, cops tend to ignore anything that doesn't point to "guilty". There would be no benefit to the accused in this case. IANAL, yada, yada.

That's absurd. Investigative police work is the process of ruling out possible suspects to arrive at the truth.

That might be the definition of "investigative police work", yes. That's not what I've observed in practice. And those that know better than I advise against giving up evidence with the idea that it will "help your case"; re: the "don't talk to the police" video that is so often referenced here.

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the exact thing we have to fight against because it leads to class based systems. Those who use cloud computing are innocent and those who don't are presumably hiding something. This is the why we have constitutional rights, to avoid such broad generalizations. Everyone has the right to privacy, regardless of what utilities or Hobbies they have.

Everyone has a right to prevention of unreasonable search and seizure. It's still up in the air whether going to a third-party to whom you've voluntarily given a bunch of information about yourself and asking that third-party to render that information is "unreasonable." It's pretty simple to make a case that it isn't. To wit: there's plenty of legal precedent for compelling a witness to testify against someone; are…

> It's still up in the air whether going to a third-party to whom you've voluntarily given a bunch of information about yourself and asking that third-party to render that information is "unreasonable."

It's really not 'up in the air' - it's been settled for over a century, look at banks and phone companies.

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because something is legally a crime doesn't mean it's not legitimate.

Actually, that's exactly what it means.

No, it doesn't. Legitimacy (or ethics) is not derived from law (or the reverse). It's possible to be guilty of a crime (by the law) for legitimate reasons. These extenuating circumstances are improper generalizations or other imperfections in the law.

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#167
It's creepy how the surveillance state is edging its way into our homes so voluntarily. Look at all the IoT projects with cameras and this Amazon Echo device. All a subpoena away.

Oh, and let's not forget "just put all your data in the cloud" and then a court finds that "cloud" is not subject to your personal possessions...

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#168
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While technically an accurate description, I generally don't think of encryption that terminates at a service provider as "end to end". I usually think of end to end encryption in the sense of messaging, where it is encrypted when one human sends it and is decrypted when another human opens it.

By that definition, encryption for a cloud-based home automation system is impossible, right? "Here's the command from the Echo Dot." "Great, what should I do?" "Can't tell you; it's encrypted."

I think techncially it's possible for certain operations using homomorphic encryption[1], where operations performed on encrypted data result in an appropriate transformation of the plaintext data, but I am fairly certain that's not widely used, and I think Amazon would make a big deal out of it if it were used with the Echo.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homomorphic_encryption

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#169
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it a good thing to record data that helps solve a murder? The police are still getting it with a warrant and presumably from physical access to the device, so it's not the same worry as bulk monitoring.

The Amazon Echo records data from all of its users, not just the murderers. It's creeping close to bulk monitoring.

It is bulk monitoring. My four kids each have a google tablet. My autistic daughter has learned a lot through "OK, Google", which means everything said in my household for the past six years is sitting on Google's servers, waiting for America's Stasi to commandeer it. Frankly, it's bullshit that Google didn't know what was going on, or that I didn't either.

Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those patterns would be easily detected in the dataset. I tried logging my electricity use. You can easily see what time I wake up each day, when I get home, whether I watch TV or not, whether I cook using the microwave or the hob. It doesn't show up on my graph, but I'd bet from the data you can see exactly when I go to bed, since I plug in my phone (+1W) and switch off the last light (-5W). Within all this, the fri…

Yes, by the exact amount of current used, the logger can tell what you've got on at any moment. It can be correlated with water usage as well. It'll log how many times you flush, and whether you brush your teeth. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the government tries to require a device that logs all our conversations at home. It'll be sold as "crucial for law enforcement". The Echo is a technological marvel. But w…

They're not going to have to patch what you can touch because they already want for themselves the information the government is going to request.
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