How Social Isolation Is Killing Us • Hacker News Board

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#161

Post by cmdrfred » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 12:35 PM UTC

kbart wrote: post #158

woogiewonka wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes me sad because I don't go to bars. Not sure what to do when I don't drink. Shy as fuck too, sucks.

You don't have to drink alcohol at bar. I have plenty of friends who don't consume alcohol, but have no problems going out and order non-alcoholic cocktail, juice, tea etc. Sure, it depends on a place a lot -- there are places where people go to chat and meet new people and there are places where people go to drink until passing out, so find the one that suits you..

I don't often drink, maybe twice a year and I've been given the advice you just gave the previous poster. The truth is drunk people are insufferable while sober I don't recommend anyone do this.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#162

Post by TheRealDunkirk » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 12:40 PM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #34

conistonwater wrote: post #3

I like the article, but I gotta ask: why the focus on "new research"? Is "old research" not good enough? I suppose it might not be, but some of it should really be at least brought up. Here's a book from 1974 [1] by Robert Weiss, whose first (sample) chapter [2] reads very similar to the NYTimes piece, and covers many of the same issues, even before the internet was around. In particular, it draws the line (much more…

>'I gotta ask: why the focus on "new research"?' I think this passage is key, I had not heard this postulated before: "New research suggests that loneliness is not necessarily the result of poor social skills or lack of social support, but can be caused in part by unusual sensitivity to social cues. Lonely people are more likely to perceive ambiguous social cues negatively, and enter a self-preservation mind-set — wo…

Totally agree. I think the internet and social media have just exacerbated the existing problem that society is fracturing into countless splinter groups, with no tolerance for any of the others' views, and it's really difficult to find and keep up with those handful of people you can actually tolerate enough to keep a close social bond with. I don't think that it takes a degree in sociology, or a controlled study, to see this happening. As for WHY, my own, personal theory is that "we" (the US) came together to support the war effort in the forties in a way that the world had never experienced before or since, and it's all been a snowballing disassociation since, made worse as a reaction TO the perceived stifling effect of the dominant societal norm of that day.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#163

Post by kbart » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 12:55 PM UTC

cmdrfred wrote: post #161

kbart wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to drink alcohol at bar. I have plenty of friends who don't consume alcohol, but have no problems going out and order non-alcoholic cocktail, juice, tea etc. Sure, it depends on a place a lot -- there are places where people go to chat and meet new people and there are places where people go to drink until passing out, so find the one that suits you..

I don't often drink, maybe twice a year and I've been given the advice you just gave the previous poster. The truth is drunk people are insufferable while sober I don't recommend anyone do this.

Well, as I said, it depends on a place. I usually go to places where people are going to play board games, pool, foosball etc. while getting few beers, not drink themselves unconsciously.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#164

Post by cmdrfred » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 1:12 PM UTC

kbart wrote: post #163

cmdrfred wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't often drink, maybe twice a year and I've been given the advice you just gave the previous poster. The truth is drunk people are insufferable while sober I don't recommend anyone do this.

Well, as I said, it depends on a place. I usually go to places where people are going to play board games, pool, foosball etc. while getting few beers, not drink themselves unconsciously.

To each their own of course, but I find even mildly impaired people annoying. You don't realize how much an effect a few beers can have alcohol is deceptive that way, that's why you see people down a bottle of vodka and get behind the wheel. They honestly believe that they are fine to drive.

A tip if you do decide to try this advice, don't let anyone know you aren't drinking. Not only will you often get accosted "Come on buddy just one!", but at the end of the night you will often be pressured to become some sort of unpaid Uber.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#165

Post by 2muchcoffeeman » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 1:39 PM UTC

woogiewonka wrote: post #129

selestify wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As somebody else on the spectrum, how did you get to understand dating? I find that I miss so many cues, and there's a lot about human interactions that I don't understand.

If you are a guy, you're not alone. We just generally suck at cues. Ya gotta get lucky and find someone to spell it out for you. At least that's how I met my wife.

Shit. The older I get the more I realise I may have missed or misinterpreted cues. I've started wondering if I am on the spectrum.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#166

Post by 55555 » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 1:44 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #112

TheOneTrueKyle wrote: post #30

I have been "lonely" most of my life. I have lived in a terrible town growing up where everyone lived on the other side of town. I went to college where nothing was happening and nothing is really interesting and I didn't connect with anyone really. Now, I am reaching 30, and have spent the most of my 20s trying to find a way to move to a place that will make me happy. I'm hoping this will eventually happen, but I ha…

> move to a place that will make me happy I'm sorry, but that is not how it works. You are what's making you unhappy, and that's what you have to change. The good thing is you have plenty of free time to do it in, and all the power to do it.

Unfortunately, as someone who has lived in many, many places, this is true. People are socializing everywhere and if you're lonely where you are, you will probably be lonely anywhere. Unless you're flamboyantly gay in Aleppo, or something, moving probably won't affect your ability to socialize too much.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#167

Post by codingdave » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 1:49 PM UTC

muninn_ wrote: post #5

conistonwater wrote: post #3

I like the article, but I gotta ask: why the focus on "new research"? Is "old research" not good enough? I suppose it might not be, but some of it should really be at least brought up. Here's a book from 1974 [1] by Robert Weiss, whose first (sample) chapter [2] reads very similar to the NYTimes piece, and covers many of the same issues, even before the internet was around. In particular, it draws the line (much more…

Right. It's not an issue of technology, for the most part, but it's the way American cities are designed. Instead of mixed-use walkable neighborhoods where people with a variety of incomes and backgrounds live, and stay put, we have suburban fortresses where people live in a box, never talk to their neighbors, drive a box to work, work in a box, then do it all over again. The national highway system was great for a n…

I know the whole stereotype of suburban isolation is popular, but I have never found it to be true. I have lived in cities, small towns, and in suburbia. I found suburban folk knew their neighbors the most. In the city, people ignore each other. In small towns, you know everyone, but almost too much so. But in the suburbs, we knew everyone within about 5 homes, and the kids would go out and play together, we'd have dinners together, see each other at the parks... it was a community. It was the stereotype of talking across the fence to your neighbor as you both did yard work.

I'm not defending suburbia... I don't like it in general, and now have a small homestead in a small town, but my dislike of suburbia does NOT stem from social isolation.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#168

Post by maxsilver » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 2:11 PM UTC

muninn_ wrote: post #5

conistonwater wrote: post #3

I like the article, but I gotta ask: why the focus on "new research"? Is "old research" not good enough? I suppose it might not be, but some of it should really be at least brought up. Here's a book from 1974 [1] by Robert Weiss, whose first (sample) chapter [2] reads very similar to the NYTimes piece, and covers many of the same issues, even before the internet was around. In particular, it draws the line (much more…

Right. It's not an issue of technology, for the most part, but it's the way American cities are designed. Instead of mixed-use walkable neighborhoods where people with a variety of incomes and backgrounds live, and stay put, we have suburban fortresses where people live in a box, never talk to their neighbors, drive a box to work, work in a box, then do it all over again. The national highway system was great for a n…

> it's the way American cities are designed. Instead of mixed-use walkable neighborhoods where people with a variety of incomes and backgrounds live, and stay put, we have suburban fortresses where people live in a box, never talk to their neighbors, drive a box to work, work in a box, then do it all over again.

That's not the highways fault in any way. Walkable neighborhoods are expensive, and most Americans are too poor to afford anything like that.

You can't jump in early, because you'll just get gentrified out as soon as decent density & transit exist. You can't jump in after, because the costs are 3x to 50x higher. If your not wealthy, it's a loose-loose situation. That's why walkable neighborhoods can't maintain their "variety of incomes and backgrounds".

If anyone could afford to put their family in walkable NYC / San Francisco / Seattle / etc, many more would choose to do it. But until high-quality safe family housing in walkable neighborhoods drops to $150k - $250k, it's just not going to happen.

Suburbs don't happen because people love looking at asphalt. Suburbs can be made cheap, safe and affordable for regular middle-class people. Dense urban housing is almost never affordable, even in tiny little towns with no zoning or permitting in low-cost-of-living places like the Midwest.

Until people honestly address the exploding high costs of density (and not just blame "red tape" or "design" or "subsidy" for it), that won't change and suburbs will continue to get built.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#169

Post by mike_h » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 2:22 PM UTC

woogiewonka wrote: post #127

TheOneTrueKyle wrote: post #30

I have been "lonely" most of my life. I have lived in a terrible town growing up where everyone lived on the other side of town. I went to college where nothing was happening and nothing is really interesting and I didn't connect with anyone really. Now, I am reaching 30, and have spent the most of my 20s trying to find a way to move to a place that will make me happy. I'm hoping this will eventually happen, but I ha…

Hey, welcome to the club! I loved reading your comment and feel more connected now. Ah, the social webs of hacker news, can't beat it. Except I say stupid shit sometimes and get downvoted to oblivion. Let me tell you something... There is no place you can move to cure what you have. Sorry.

Going to encouragingly dispute that. Tech hubs are full of people who came out of just this situation and are ecstatic at having found a like-minded community. You may not suddenly be a social butterfly, but the chances of making friends and finding meetups you enjoy etc go up by literal orders of magnitude. If you're an isolated computer type, you owe it to yourself to at least visit a place like this for a weekend and schedule some meetups or job interviews etc to see what life could be like.

Re: How Social Isolation Is Killing Us

#170

Post by snarf21 » Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 2:22 PM UTC

TheOneTrueKyle wrote: post #41

edpichler wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, could I give an advice to you? Don't expect too much from other people, and try you to create "events" and invite some people, with similar interests, to join with you. Don't worry about the "no"s you will receive, pay attention to the "yes". The change start on you. This works for me.

I mean I still try and I give more than I receive for sure, but nothing seems to be working. For the first half of my 20s I didn't leave the house under the assumption that, "if I work hard, I can live where I want to and find a job in a cool place. No reason to make friends now." I have since replaced that assumption, but it's hard to find meaningful relationships in a place you despise.

Are there any meetups in your area or other groups that have weekly/monthly meetings? If not, can I ask where you are located? Also, have you tried volunteering? Or teaching a free class at a library or civic organization?

Life (generally) returns what a portion of what you give. If you never put yourself out there, you can't get relationships back in return. I'd focus first on getting new acquaintances, they don't have to be friends. As your circles grow, you will find some number of actual friends.