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Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

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Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#161
post #106
post #15

Teachers disliked him, because they knew how easily he picked up information. I'm a teacher, and this is one of the things that frustrates me deeply about our education system. I welcome students like this; they're so much fun to work with. But I usually have to make them feel accepted before I can begin to work with them. I teach in a small alternative high school, and by the time bright students get to me, they're…

My most distinct memory of early education is my grade seven teacher yelling at me, saying that he never wanted to see me read a book in his classroom ever again. I used to read books in class after I finished whatever trivial in-class work we had... apparently, this was more annoying to him than the kids who didn't do their work and loudly talked about their drug consumption.

The thought of anyone getting ahead in life is truly frightening to these people.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#162
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure some people do that. That's business acumen, however, not my personal forte. Not many brilliant people ever become rich. To become rich takes not just cleverness or even genius, but the ability to convince others to invest in it and not simply fuck you over. For myself, I'm just not interested in inventions. I'm far more interested in math and geology, so I spend most of my free time just being amazed by the…

Interested in mathematics and geology, so you say? Behold, I am the polypontian, and spin links 'twixt diverse nodes not my own: http://www.aleph.se/andart/archives/2014/02/torusearth.html Perhaps this Anders would be interested to discuss the particular brand of paint you enjoy watching dry [0]. [0] Which if one has any fascination at all with viscous fluids or amorphous solids, one really must try sometime.

Wow, I love the randomness of coincidences like this.

I got to know Anders over 20 years ago, he was clearly crazy intelligent, and great fun, because he would always go off in funny what-if scenarios. Checking his blog confirms that he's still doing exactly this, and still thinking very hard about it. :-)

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#163
post #36

I know of at least two other people from small towns whose IQ and life stories are similar to those shared in the article. I think high IQ individuals becoming isolated, social outcasts is more common in small towns, where accelerated curriculums and gifted and talented programs are more rare. If you know a highly gifted child, refer them to the Davidson Academy, a free public school for the profoundly gifted. http:/…

Got any resources for preschools? I've got a serious pending problem with my youngest. She's 18 months old and already on par with an average 4-5 year old (and even older in some ways). It's really freaking my wife and I out - we cannot keep up with her curiosity and motivation to learn - we just don't have time or resources. We're worried that by the time she starts school, she's going to be so far ahead that she wo…

Some thoughts, with the caveat that it's very not my field.

> cannot keep up

Different approaches can have very different demands. Some parents it seems, write out lesson plans -- lots of effort. Or instead, you can support, and mentor, and be an example, and otherwise "get out of the way" -- smaller and more flexible effort.

My fuzzy recollection is, one reason families without a higher-ed background, have kids that achieve less, is that the parents are more likely to believe, and teach their kids, that education is something that school is going to do for you. To you. Rather than something you have to create for yourself. With school sometimes helping, and often not. So one hears of community college students, protesting in frustration "I've paid you, so why haven't you successfully taught me yet?" Interestingly, a similar issue shows up with Ivy League students, who have had excellent teachers presenting knowledge well, and now lack the motivation and skills, to themselves grapple with a body of knowledge, and wrestle understanding from it. "They expect me to spoon feed them" an instructor said. So the reason for mentioning this... perhaps thinking of yourself in a "supportive" role, rather than a "school teacher"-ish role, might be useful?

Also... I knew a toddler, with their own toddler-high kitchen snack shelf. And they learned to pour cheerios, and water. More or less neatly. And two years later, that was all gone, and the parent was doing everything themselves. Almost passive "spoon feeding". So both the learning had stopped, and the parent was more busy. When young, so much can be a "learning opportunity", that "here's a way to save time", can at least sometimes be made into one. For a double win.

> by the time she starts school, she's going to be so far ahead that she won't be able to relate to the other kids

Some schools have multiple grades in the same classroom. Which can help.

> No idea what to do.

I've been told there are very helpful discussion mailinglists for parents of "gifted children". With supportive communities.

And I'd be unsurprised if some programs like http://cty.jhu.edu/ are used to getting "heellpp!!" emails, and sending out a resources packet. Or have it on the website? See comment below by dsjoerg.

> hang out with kids like herself and do what kids do

Just brainstorming... perhaps introduce the concept that "different people are different, and good for different things"? Grandma with walker can't play tag in the park, but can read stories. Some adults like talking with kids, and some don't. The librarian can talk about books, but can't make you sandwich, or show you how to do it. Some dogs you can pet, others only say hi to. Some kids do and like talking about activity X, and others don't care about X but like Y. Which is frustrating when you want to do something particular, and the person at hand doesn't. But looking for common ground is an important life skill. As illustrated by other comments on this page.

Good luck. Definitely connect up with communities of parents facing similar issues.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#164
post #89

I know of at least two other people from small towns whose IQ and life stories are similar to those shared in the article. I think high IQ individuals becoming isolated, social outcasts is more common in small towns, where accelerated curriculums and gifted and talented programs are more rare. If you know a highly gifted child, refer them to the Davidson Academy, a free public school for the profoundly gifted. http:/…

> accelerated curriculums and gifted and talented programs I may be an edge case, but I was put in those programs and hated them. I had a high IQ but also untreated Attention-Deficit Disorder. The last thing I wanted to do was to "wrack my brain" on difficult questions that felt like they were above my level, with the people around me suddenly placing high expectations on my being able to solve those problems. Sure,…

I was in a similar boat. Being "accelerated" in subjects you're not passionate about when you have other unaddressed interests is a recipe for disaster.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#165
post #36

I know of at least two other people from small towns whose IQ and life stories are similar to those shared in the article. I think high IQ individuals becoming isolated, social outcasts is more common in small towns, where accelerated curriculums and gifted and talented programs are more rare. If you know a highly gifted child, refer them to the Davidson Academy, a free public school for the profoundly gifted. http:/…

Got any resources for preschools? I've got a serious pending problem with my youngest. She's 18 months old and already on par with an average 4-5 year old (and even older in some ways). It's really freaking my wife and I out - we cannot keep up with her curiosity and motivation to learn - we just don't have time or resources. We're worried that by the time she starts school, she's going to be so far ahead that she wo…

If you want her to follow her mind, give her all the resources and let her choose. The popular choice isn't always ideal, and pushing your child in a direction they're not suited for (whether super-genius or "normal") won't do any good.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#166

I think introversion may be partly to blame. I can relate to a lot of the things about the people in this article. That said, over many years, I managed to train myself to act extroverted. Recently, someone even accused me of being a "social, networking type" which they probably meant as an insult but it was actually a massive compliment to my life's work ;p

I may be misunderstanding what you're referring to, but I just wanted to point out that "introversion" doesn't mean "misanthropic." In a nutshell, introversion/extroversion just refers to what effect social interaction has on you: Does being with people energize you, or leave you drained? For example, I'm most certainly an introvert, but I love meeting up with friends for an evening---the "introvert" part is that at a certain point, I just want to leave and go sit in a quiet room. Interaction is tiring, not unpleasant.

Anyway, I'm wandering: My point was, I'm not sure you've trained yourself to "act extroverted," just to be more social than your "comfort zone" would normally allow.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#167
The problem is they knew they were smarter than everyone else.

When you've pulled a number that tells you you're smarter than everyone else, it becomes really easy to use your IQ as a binky and disengage from reality. This will stunt your development in so many ways. It's the genetic lottery equivalent of squandering it all on coke and whores.

If we wanted to fix this, I think the first lesson in gifted classes should be: "You're a Special Snowflake, but life is still going to suck." Basically, teach them that the rest of the world only cares about you in terms of what you bring to the table, that no man is an island, and that bringing things to the table is usually a dirty job no matter how smart you are.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#168
I remember taking a programming course many years ago at a community college. I finished an assignment, which wasn't too hard, and decided to go on to an advanced, unassigned topic. The instructor came into the lab, and so I asked her to clarify something. She was visibly irritated with me and told me to stick to the assignment, then stormed out. I felt like a horrible person and kept asking myself "what is wrong with you?". Months or years later I realized I need to stop feeling guilty. I had not harmed anyone, and I think she did know the answer to the question I had asked.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#169
I took and passed Algabra in the 6th 7th 8th and 9th grade. I slept in class usually didn't do the home work and got A's on most every test. But the teachers all felt I wasn't ready for harder math as they thought I wasn't mature enough. I didnt realize till years latter that this turned me from a bright excited student to lazy, lethargic and not wanting to challenge myself academically. Ended up graduating with a 1.8 gpa and a 1380 SAT score. Ended up joining the army, Infantryman, paratrooper and a Sergent by 21 years of age. Now I'm 34 and feel in some ways that if teachers had allowed me to progress and encouraged me earlier instead of being punished for not showing work or doing homework that was essentially busy work,I would have applied my self fully then instead of in the Army. As proud of I am of my service and having been a wartime team leader in the infantry at 21, maybe I would have gone to college first and not had to suffer from various medical and metal issues at the age of 34 from my military service. /rant over.

Edited for typos as I'm half blind and proffreding sucks.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#170

Was in the 99.9 percentile as a child and enjoyed gifted classes until high school where I was exceptionally bored and hardly applied myself. I ended up at a lower-ranked state university where I am able to try a little harder (thanks STEM), though it still doesn't feel rewarding being so far ahead of your classmates. Fortunately, my campus life is much more social than my more ambitious hs friends' campuses, althoug…

One of my friends left school to pursue a professional career at 18, did it rather successfully and then retired after a few years to go back to school. He decided to go back via community college but it bored him to tears. The teaching was terrible and none of his peers seemed worth talking to. Then he started looking at the online recordings that good schools put up of their classes, realized the gap in teaching quality and decided to transfer to a vastly better school. He's been much happier since.

It's easy for us to blame or be indignant about our environments, but sometimes I also think it's our own responsibilities to go find the places in the world that would work for us.

I personally like finding hobbies and pursuing them relentlessly with the goal of becoming the best in the world. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But I usually enjoy myself and get to meet some really remarkable people I wouldn't have otherwise.

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