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The Busy Person’s Lies

nytimes.com

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Re: The Busy Person’s Lies

#161

Post by haikuginger »

faceyspacey wrote: post #62
apsec112 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends a lot on the specifics. Of course, there are certainly lots of Americans who are both poorer than the author and work harder. But in the US, the very poorest people tend to be those who don't work at all, or only work part-time. People who live their whole life in a small town with one or two big employers, which move away when the economy crashes; people whose skills go out-of-date, and can't affo…

That view that it it's "terribly depressing to be broke" and all the despair the poor in America feel because they can create no value could only be thought up by us smug hacker news software creators. I know first hand that much of the poor are content to live off the government, never had any aspirations and ultimately don't need much to survive and be content enough. They don't know what they don't know and theref…

> That view that it it's "terribly depressing to be broke" and all the despair the poor in America feel because they can create no value could only be thought up by us smug hacker news software creators.

I think that's the view that's easy to come up with for smug HN software creators.

I've lived in poverty while working a minimum wage job, and while it was only for a couple years, it utterly destroyed my morale. There was no reliability; nothing I could count on. If something happened; if I got sick or if something broke down, then I would have had to go to a loan shark. Not because I was stupid or because I didn't understand that I'd never be able to pay the loan back, but because there would simply be no other option.

Long story short, I escaped that situation largely through luck, but I try to keep reminding myself of what it was like in the days where I had to double-check my bank balance before agreeing to go out for Chik-Fil-A.

Re: The Busy Person’s Lies

#162

Post by late2part »

phs318u wrote: post #160
faceyspacey wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That view that it it's "terribly depressing to be broke" and all the despair the poor in America feel because they can create no value could only be thought up by us smug hacker news software creators. I know first hand that much of the poor are content to live off the government, never had any aspirations and ultimately don't need much to survive and be content enough. They don't know what they don't know and theref…

Imagine you are born into a glass room. Others are already in the room. Initially your focus is within the room. You don't really notice anyone outside the room. But eventually your mind starts to imagine other possibilities. Looking around, ,none of the others are trying to break through the walls, even though they can see others outside those walls. You ask about this, but are told there's no point - the walls are…

Is this more about The Matrix, Great Expectations, Good Will Hunting, Dead Poets Society, or What Dreams May Come?

I condense your analogy to the aphorism:

Until people realize they can change, they won't try

Re: The Busy Person’s Lies

#163

Post by rosstex »

pbh101 wrote: post #152
rosstex wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you recommend Sleep Cycle the most? Do they require the phone physically on your bed or nearby?

After an update about a year ago, it only requires being nearby (nightstand works for me) and uses sound to do the sensing.

Cool, I'll give it a try tonight!

Re: The Busy Person’s Lies

#164

Post by phs318u »

late2part wrote: post #162
phs318u wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you are born into a glass room. Others are already in the room. Initially your focus is within the room. You don't really notice anyone outside the room. But eventually your mind starts to imagine other possibilities. Looking around, ,none of the others are trying to break through the walls, even though they can see others outside those walls. You ask about this, but are told there's no point - the walls are…

Is this more about The Matrix, Great Expectations, Good Will Hunting, Dead Poets Society, or What Dreams May Come? I condense your analogy to the aphorism: Until people realize they can change, they won't try

Love the compression ratio ;-)

However, I think your version could be subject to misinterpretation. When you are referring to change, are you implying "themselves", "their circumstances", or both?

In the story above the glass room dwellers did change themselves - from aspirational to resigned.

So perhaps, the compression was "lossy" after all ;-)

Re: The Busy Person’s Lies

#165

Post by chillwaves »

tboyd47 wrote: post #12

The story seems to be that most people are under the delusion of being busier than they actually are, and if they just paid closer attention they would realize this. To me the far more interesting question is, why do we feel so busy? I've made the observation to my family on numerous occasions that the most stressful and exhausting work days for me are the least productive, those days when I'm just sitting at the com…

Imagine what it's like for those who actually have more than 40 hours of work to do each week. And hour and a half commutes each way.

I feel so busy because my work day is essentially 12 hours. Even at that, I know people who legitimately work more than 50 hours a week, every week. This is not sustainable. One great solution would be to start making companies pay overtime. Would create tons of jobs and a healthier society.

Let's take it a step further and make 35 hours full time. Time and a half after that.

Re: The Busy Person’s Lies

#166

Post by intended »

tboyd47 wrote: post #12

The story seems to be that most people are under the delusion of being busier than they actually are, and if they just paid closer attention they would realize this. To me the far more interesting question is, why do we feel so busy? I've made the observation to my family on numerous occasions that the most stressful and exhausting work days for me are the least productive, those days when I'm just sitting at the com…

It's the load on the back of your head (literally). If you are in a structured, predictable, organized environment with minimal interruptions - your performance is very high

Do note: the perverse case scenario for this is working at Foxconn

If at the back of your head you are processing what failure may mean, worrying about who will be upset, worrying about politics, etc. then emotional and cognitive load and stress in particular drains you out.

Re: The Busy Person’s Lies

#167

Post by coldtea »

faceyspacey wrote: post #62
apsec112 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends a lot on the specifics. Of course, there are certainly lots of Americans who are both poorer than the author and work harder. But in the US, the very poorest people tend to be those who don't work at all, or only work part-time. People who live their whole life in a small town with one or two big employers, which move away when the economy crashes; people whose skills go out-of-date, and can't affo…

That view that it it's "terribly depressing to be broke" and all the despair the poor in America feel because they can create no value could only be thought up by us smug hacker news software creators. I know first hand that much of the poor are content to live off the government, never had any aspirations and ultimately don't need much to survive and be content enough. They don't know what they don't know and theref…

>I know first hand that much of the poor are content to live off the government, never had any aspirations and ultimately don't need much to survive and be content enough.

Well, I know the opposite first hand. The idea that poor are content being poor is totally out of this world, especially in the US where the welfare and "handouts" for poor people are a joke (compared to Western Europe, nordic countries, etc).

>Things work and all you need is to be able to hold a minimum wage job for a few years at a time and when you get fired you can take a few years off while another friend or family member is on deck, meanwhile you're contributing food stamps the whole time, 6 months of an unemployment check, money from a few scams here and there, electricity bill deductions and many other such benefits you can get if you are below the poverty line.

This is crazy talk compared to all the people I've known and listened in such conditions. This is much closer to how poor people working such "minimum wage jobs" actually live:

https://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-Not-Getting-America/dp/0...

Re: The Busy Person’s Lies

#168

Post by coldtea »

apsec112 wrote: post #124
krisroadruck wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... I barely know how to respond to this. If you think the most poor people are content being poor it's hard for me to craft a rebuttal given how out of touch you are with reality. I grew up poor myself. Like lived on the streets for 2 years, spent time in the state grouphome system, had shoes held together by safety-pins level of poor and I now make six figures. On my way from there to here I spent a lot of time wit…

It's good to hear about your experiences, but please don't make personal attacks on HN. Usually, commenters here are quasi-anonymous; even when they're wrong, it's bad to make assumptions about who they are as people, since in most cases you just don't know.

Well, what about the attack on how the poor are "as people" in the parent comment?

Re: The Busy Person’s Lies

#169

Post by brazzledazzle »

mradamh wrote: post #133
lacampbell wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0000-0600 - sleep (roughly) I must admit I am always a bit jealous of people like you who can function on 6 hours sleep every day. After 3 days of that I am wreck.

Me too. I only feel at my best if I'm consistently getting 8 hours. A few days of 7 hours and I start to feel overly tired. Turn that down to 6 hours and I turn into an awful person. My wife hardly ever sleeps more that 6-6.5 hours so she basically gets 2 extra hours a day compared to me. This has been true for me as long as I can remember (36 year old male)

Is there any difference in your level of fitness? I need a lot of sleep as well.

Re: The Busy Person’s Lies

#170

Post by coldtea »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #8
uberstuber wrote: post #3

“To me, ‘busy’ implies that the person is out of control of their life.” – Derek Sivers

Well, I am out of control of my life. Because I need money to live, and so does my family. So I'm slaving the days away.

Sure. People that need to work to feed their family (as opposed to working by choice, on things they like at their own terms, and having the financial support to not work for years on end) are out of control of their life in that regard (they have to be somewhere for 8+ hours each workday, they cant change places unless they found a job at the new place, etc).
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