Earlier quoted context omitted.
And? Even if GCM was completely secure, you are forced to use closed source libraries to pass messages onto GCM or root your phone to load microg. Both can compromise you.
Not so much, no.
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Why I won't recommend Signal anymore
161–170 of 350 posts
Re: Why I won't recommend Signal anymore
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
GCM has practically nothing to do with the security/privacy of Signal, but it is the #1 "concern" that people who don't understand cryptographic messaging security feel they must relate about Signal.
My main concern with GCM is that it's unavailable on fully open OS builds, so requiring it compromises the security of the device as a whole, rather than Signal in particular.
That's one of several things that are reasonable not to love about Signal. Criticism intended to urge Open Whisper Systems into changing their Signal policies are reasonable. A statement that someone would recommend less secure messaging solutions to investigative journalists is another --- something I find much harder to be supportive of.
Re: Why I won't recommend Signal anymore
#163There's a fundamental assumption here: that there is a better way. I'm not saying there isn't, but there's a pretty good existence proof that Signal is the best combination of security & simplicity we can put together. I would agree with this statement from the article: "there should be a tool that is fully free software (as defined by the GNU GPL), that respects users' freedoms to freely inspect, use, modify the sof…
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Re: Why I won't recommend Signal anymore
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hi, author here. I don't think LibreSignal or indeed Signal will ever be the dominant mobile messenger out there. There's simply a lot of inertia to fight against. It's the same reason why it's hard to convince e.g. Facebook friends to move to a different social network, why Google+ failed, etc. Whenever the social aspect gets involved, companies can very easily create lock-in by being early, and then the social aspe…
You don't understand what I'm saying. I agree that crypto alone doesn't equal privacy --- it's table stakes. Clearly: it does not follow from that observation that crypto doesn't matter. If you cannot at least be cryptographically secure , the rest of what you do doesn't matter. We now have two examples --- CryptoCat and Telegram --- of "secure messaging" systems being used by governments as a way of hunting down act…
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Re: Why I won't recommend Signal anymore
#165For me I won't recommend it because of the horrible lack of options when you replace your phone (let alone lose it). No encrypted migrate. No backup options. Unencrypted loses content (images).
Plus there's no way to search old messages.
Re: Why I won't recommend Signal anymore
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
My main concern with GCM is that it's unavailable on fully open OS builds, so requiring it compromises the security of the device as a whole, rather than Signal in particular.
That's one of several things that are reasonable not to love about Signal. Criticism intended to urge Open Whisper Systems into changing their Signal policies are reasonable. A statement that someone would recommend less secure messaging solutions to investigative journalists is another --- something I find much harder to be supportive of.
Nobody is saying Signal has less secure cryptography than others. But being able to run it in CopperheadOS without loading microg would make the whole setup much more secure. And one cannot dissociate both things.
Re: Why I won't recommend Signal anymore
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hi, author here. Yes, my point with that sentence was that the average (non-technical) user (to which Signal is marketed btw), is not going to check signatures. Google has root on the phone, the user is using their app store to install the Signal app that comes up in the store, and basically Google has full control over this, and the user would be none the wiser. Of course, us more technical inclined people could the…
Does it, actually? I was under the impression that the Play Store doesn't run as root and the package manager API (controlled by the phone manufacturer) is what checks signatures. Can the Play Store override the signature checks on upgrade and if so, what codepaths is it using?
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Re: Why I won't recommend Signal anymore
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, just to clarify: Olm (matrix.org/git/olm) is an entirely independent implementation of the Double Ratchet algorithm (based on Trevor's original public domain spec sketch, which was originally called 'axolotl'). It's not connected to Signal or Signal Protocol or Open Whisper Systems, and subsequently we've added an entirely different new ratchet (Megolm - https://matrix.org/docs/spec/megolm.html ) to handle Matr…
Crypto engineers tend to like the Axolotl design, which is an unusually serious cryptographic design for a messaging protocol (historically, messaging crypto has been cryptographically slapdash, with the exception of OTR). But the reason crypto people are so positive about Signal Protocol isn't just that they like the ratchet. It's also that they trust the entire design of the system, not just the ratchet but all the…
Well, I hope on Matrix we've not been blindly namedropping axolotl/double-ratchet: instead we've tried to be as transparent as possible (more-so perhaps than OWS) in terms of speccing what we've been doing (https://matrix.org/docs/spec/olm.html, https://matrix.org/docs/spec/megolm.html, http://matrix.org/docs/olm_signing.html, https://matrix.org/speculator/spec/drafts%2Fe2e/client_serve... etc). Thanks to the Open Tech Fund we also got libolm audited by NCC Group - and we've ensured that the audit report will be publicly released (mid-Nov). Hopefully the audit & the code will speak for itself, and certainly speak stronger than bios.
Re: Why I won't recommend Signal anymore
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
Layoff the personalised attacks on the psychology of someone who has helped increase the security of hundreds of millions of people for free, on basically a shoestring. Making pro/against arguments about Signal is fine but Moxie is genuinely a nice person (as are the rest of the former and current OWS team), so let's keep the argument civil.
I actually insulted the Cyanogenmod team and I think it's funny you missed that. I don't have an issue with Moxie except that he's been pissy over this and a few other issues. I don't think anyone is going to argue that he isn't. Why not check the first link to the Libresignal thread and read his comments on the topic? (EDIT: I get the downvotes on this comment, but like Moxie, I too am seriously annoyed that Cyanoge…
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Re: Why I won't recommend Signal anymore
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not a cryptographer. I .. am reasonably sure that no one would take me for a hipster. But two issues - or call it 'differences in opinion' - in that article are relevant for me: The inability to use the service without a mobile number and federation. I understand the rationale behind the former ("It's easier"), but I don't understand why it is mandatory. I could've been 1283783127356128531312 on Signal and option…
You are not a cryptographer and not a hipster and apparently never had your life on the line in a way that made it imperative that your communications not be associated with your phone number. Whether you are a journalist or an abused individual hiding from the ex spouse/parents/whomever that abused you, if your life and/or the lives of other people are on the line, this detail (and perhaps others, as I am not super…
I'm .. confused. Aren't you basically just confirming my position, with stronger examples? Are we on the same side or do you disagree with my comment?
I mean, I think I wrote[1] that I really dislike the connection between identity and phone numbers. I happen to use Telegram at the moment (I have exactly 5 contacts, one of those is the Telegram 'we updated the software' bot, another one is a random 'Sticker' bot), but I'm an xmpp guy deep down. Matrix looks promising, I just need to find the time/energy to make the switch (and convert the 3 'real' Telegram contacts).
If you look at the thread with tptacek I do have to agree that the safest bet probably is Signal right now - if it leaks the phone number or not. I don't have to like it though...
1: If you look at my comments it seems that I repeat that in every other one, but English isn't my native language. Please blame the language barrier first, then blame the human behind the message.