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No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

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Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#161

Post by agumonkey »

wojcech wrote: post #38

I'm sure i'm not the only one who feels like this is possibly the iphone moment of Solarcity/Tesla: an old-ish idea, made sexy and tasty to consumers, together with technology reaching a tipping point(and also Musk again finding a way to maximally exploit government subsidies for clean tech.) The tesla car itself could count as well, but felt less "design driven" imo. If this fails, everyone will call it obviously du…

I do feel the same. Musk has its own Jobs recipe. Jobs took bad consumerism, propped up features, slick user interface (material and logical). And peeled plastic. Musk swaps carbon for electric, makes it as stylish as the rest if not more, plus way more sturdier than the rest.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#162

Post by awqrre »

To me, the solar roof is the most interesting project coming out of Tesla so far... and of course it combines nicely with their other products. But when will it be available and for how much? I need to replace my roof soon.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#163

Post by derekp7 »

tajen wrote: post #146
philipkglass wrote: post #22

I had serious misgivings when Tesla/SolarCity announced a switch of focus to building-integrated PV. Historically, BIPV is where a PV technology goes to die after it's failed to compete against incumbent module designs. But these have far better aesthetics than previous BIPV efforts. They look better individually and they aren't clumped in one odd shiny patch on the roof like past BIPV. Search for images of solar shi…

But is it carbon-neutral now? Let's remind the whole picture here: We want to come back to global greenhouse gases emissions on 1990, because they were balanced by nature's absorption. It often happens that the cost of building solar panels, transporting them to the location, disposing them before their estimated time-to-live and getting rid of all their chemicals emit more carbon than we save by using electricity fr…

From personal experience, I can tell you that I wasn't as anal about turning off lights in unoccupied rooms after switching to lower wattage bulbs. If someone left a light on in the basement, I'd figure it wasn't worth the extra trip down the stairs to turn it off -- especially if that light burning 24x7 only cost me a buck a month.

Although as a counterpoint, after getting a hybrid car, I'm not really making extra trips, even though it is saving me about $150 a month in gas. But that is more due to time budget than anything else.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#164

Post by Retric »

adriancooney wrote: post #152
philipkglass wrote: post #22

I had serious misgivings when Tesla/SolarCity announced a switch of focus to building-integrated PV. Historically, BIPV is where a PV technology goes to die after it's failed to compete against incumbent module designs. But these have far better aesthetics than previous BIPV efforts. They look better individually and they aren't clumped in one odd shiny patch on the roof like past BIPV. Search for images of solar shi…

Its a dodgy business though converting your entire roof to this technology (in its first iteration too). What if a tile breaks? Whats the lifetime on each tile?

Thick glass tends to be fairly resilient so anything that's going to damage these would likely destroy normal tiles anyway. Depending on how modular these things are they should be able to deal with breaks without significant problem just run in parallel like the good Christmas lights which still work when one goes out.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#165

Post by Graphon1 »

aianus wrote: post #158
jackmott wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fossil fuel industry people are somehow able to forget that they get subsidies right now every time they comment about clean tech subsidies.

Can anyone explain to me these oft-mentioned government subsidies on fossil fuels? Gas has 25% taxes where I live. Surely that's the opposite of 'subsidizing' it (vs, for example, electricity which is taxed at 5%). What am I missing?

In the USA,

- Strategic Petroleum Reserve - LIHEAP - exemption for farm vehicles on fuel

See more: http://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2012/04/25/the-surp...

Some people construe foreign military adventures such as Iraq 1991 and Iraq 2003 as oil subsidies. Without those, oil markets would be less stable, and consequently oil would be much less attractive as a fuel.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#166

Post by Graphon1 »

bduerst wrote: post #86
wojcech wrote: post #38

I'm sure i'm not the only one who feels like this is possibly the iphone moment of Solarcity/Tesla: an old-ish idea, made sexy and tasty to consumers, together with technology reaching a tipping point(and also Musk again finding a way to maximally exploit government subsidies for clean tech.) The tesla car itself could count as well, but felt less "design driven" imo. If this fails, everyone will call it obviously du…

I'm not sure. Rumor mill has it that SC has been struggling, and the recent buyout from Tesla makes it look like Musk is transferring cash to himself. Musk talks alot , and I'm still on the fence as to whether this is vaporware meant to distract from that.

> Rumor mill has it that SC has been struggling

It wasn't a rumor. Solar City was publicly traded and the struggles were documented.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2015/09/09/eve...

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#167

Post by Graphon1 »

jomamaxx wrote: post #61
wojcech wrote: post #38

I'm sure i'm not the only one who feels like this is possibly the iphone moment of Solarcity/Tesla: an old-ish idea, made sexy and tasty to consumers, together with technology reaching a tipping point(and also Musk again finding a way to maximally exploit government subsidies for clean tech.) The tesla car itself could count as well, but felt less "design driven" imo. If this fails, everyone will call it obviously du…

From a popular perspective - you are maybe right - they 'sexified' something not quite so sexy. However - I suggest this won't work out like the iPhone. Why? Because --> 'new roofs' are not built that often, by that I mean new homes and roofing replacements. And the construction industry has totally different dynamics. Putting on a 'regular' new roof is expensive. Most people won't consider this tech unless their hom…

Another major difference:

iPhone was a platform. As more people bought the iphone,

- the phone became more attractive to 3rd party accessory makers (protective cases, cables, etc) and apps makers.

- the phone itself became more valuable to owners, as more complementary products became available.

- the phone became more valuable to Apple, who could get feedback and make the phone better.

The hockey stick on the analogous factors for Tesla is much shallower. The "complementary products" for owners of cars will be primarily recharge stations. Still few and far between.

There is no benefit to 3rd parties, that I see. No benefit to other stakeholders like utilities. And Tesla itself does not enjoy a growing, self-reinforcing cycle of value, as sales increase. It's really just economies of scale.

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#168

Post by anexprogrammer »

slfnflctd wrote: post #45
jaggederest wrote: post #5

I think it's interesting looking at it from the other end - as a homeowner, I can tell you that roofing is an expensive proposition. If this can be competitive with traditional roofing and have a longer life expectancy, I'd buy in a heartbeat. It has the potential to displace thousands of tons of asphalt shingles per year with the equivalent of recyclable glass, which is pretty fantastic. The embodied energy of produ…

Roof replacement is quite a dirty business, in more than one sense of the term, and there are regions where whole roofs are replaced by the majority of insured homeowners every 10 years or less. Any dent that can be made in this problem is a good thing, and this looks to be quite a large dent indeed.

> roofs are replaced by the majority of insured homeowners every 10 years or less

Well I was going to be astonished, but Google and Wikipedia seem to tell me US roofs are a consumable and usually asphalt!

Most UK roofs are tile, slate if older, and asphalt shingles reserved for sheds, garden structures etc. Tile lifespan should be 60+ years.

As much as I like the improved aesthetics I don't see the tiles making much dent in the UK apart from new builds. For exising build the UK approach to solar has been to slap panels on a frame over the existing roof. Sadly there are no planning restrictions on bad taste.

eg http://www.prescientpower.co.uk/sites/default/files/imagecac...

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#169

Post by Graphon1 »

slfnflctd wrote: post #45
jaggederest wrote: post #5

I think it's interesting looking at it from the other end - as a homeowner, I can tell you that roofing is an expensive proposition. If this can be competitive with traditional roofing and have a longer life expectancy, I'd buy in a heartbeat. It has the potential to displace thousands of tons of asphalt shingles per year with the equivalent of recyclable glass, which is pretty fantastic. The embodied energy of produ…

Roof replacement is quite a dirty business, in more than one sense of the term, and there are regions where whole roofs are replaced by the majority of insured homeowners every 10 years or less. Any dent that can be made in this problem is a good thing, and this looks to be quite a large dent indeed.

> there are regions where whole roofs are replaced by the majority of insured homeowners every 10 years or less.

cite?

Re: No One Saw Tesla’s Solar Roof Coming

#170

Post by wtvanhest »

wojcech wrote: post #38

I'm sure i'm not the only one who feels like this is possibly the iphone moment of Solarcity/Tesla: an old-ish idea, made sexy and tasty to consumers, together with technology reaching a tipping point(and also Musk again finding a way to maximally exploit government subsidies for clean tech.) The tesla car itself could count as well, but felt less "design driven" imo. If this fails, everyone will call it obviously du…

I guess what confuses me is that most people with enough money to drive a Tesla keep it in a garage. I guess most offices probably don't have parking garages in suburbia, but I was surprised to hit control F "garage" on these comments and not see a single mention...

There are lots of upsides for future research and gained efficiency in the future though. Especially as electric moves toward big trucks down the road. (a semi full of solar panels could probably help propel the truck and save fuel etc.)

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