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How the Web Became Unreadable

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Re: How the Web Became Unreadable

#161

Post by jonstokes »

joesmo wrote: post #128
usaphp wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Designers are ruining software in general. iTunes, the iOS music app, and Google Maps are just a few pieces of software that started out relatively usable" Did it ever occurs to you that they had far less functionality when these examples were created? Backend programmers kept piling functionality into these apps and at some point no matter how good a designer is it just gets overwhelmed.

I haven't seen any new functionality in iTunes or Google Maps in years. I'm sure there are new features, but the basics have been the same for going on a decade now. Seems like they are just redesigning the UI to piss people off, just like every other clueless company out there. If you can't figure out how to make a clean map or music player interface, you're not a designer.

This. It's just UI churn, and it's miserable. My wife /hates/ it when I do an OS update, because she has to re-learn how to do the same stuff.

Re: How the Web Became Unreadable

#162

Post by Deimorz »

mhurron wrote: post #141
swiley wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where else would a self.reddit link go? Also, the comments link always goes to the same place.

But the link does not always go the the same place. I personally am always clicking on external links when I meant to go to the discussion page. I would have the main link always go to the discussion page, if there is an associated external link, have it listed under the main link. Lets see if I can get this to show what I mean (grabbed from the front page) What is the most 2000s thing you can think of? submitted 5 h…

The way I think of it is that clicking on the title is taking you to the content. For a self-post, the content is posted on reddit itself, so the content location is the same as the comments page.

That being said, they've made a few steps toward something closer to your suggestion in some places. For example, if you do a search, the search results behave this way, where clicking the title always takes you to the comments and there's a separate link (with a chain-link icon) to go to the linked content.

Re: How the Web Became Unreadable

#163

Post by state »

jonstokes wrote: post #55

Designers are ruining software in general. iTunes, the iOS music app, and Google Maps are just a few pieces of software that started out relatively usable (if not exactly stable in the case of iTunes), and have been iterated and stylized to the point where I routinely get enraged by them. At least Google Maps has walked back that terrible accordion thing that literally drove me crazy. I basically think design is like…

As a designer, I agree completely. The problem is: interaction design really is a discipline in its absolute infancy. It's not graphic design. It's not engineering. It's not architecture. Pretty much anyone can just pick it up and start doing it. And the people who decide to ship shitty designs you're complaining about are more concerned with 'pageviews' or 'installs' (and in turn, their bonus) than actual usability.

Compare the process by which an app or website design makes it out into the world to how a patch makes it into an open source project. Anyone can start programming, but to be accepted as a 'good' programmer you're inevitably vetted by other, better programmers. The ad-hoc peer-review of OSS actually works reasonably well. Most importantly: it can be very critical. Most designers I meet today have laughably thin skin.

Try comparing the most successful projects on GitHub to those on Dribble. Dribble makes my skin crawl.

Anyway, you're right. Most contemporary interaction design is absolutely awful. It's going to take time for the rules of the discipline to evolve. We'd probably see this improve a lot if the apps and sites we used weren't optimized for 'engagement'. They just look like slot machines designed by Portlandia characters.

Re: How the Web Became Unreadable

#164

Post by zokier »

amelius wrote: post #153
zokier wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also: Readability, a project first discussed on HN some 8 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=501970

Does it perform OCR? Because if not, then the content industry will circumvent it by rendering the text as images.

Content industry doesn't really care that much about few nerds scraping the content for themselves as long as it remains small enough minority. And if they do something, it'll most likely follow the tracks of other anti-adblock tech instead of doing something as stupid as prerendering text.

Re: How the Web Became Unreadable

#166

Post by matt4077 »

eitland wrote: post #111
js8 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Designers are ruining software in general. I agree with you. But what I find hilarious about it is that in the 90s, there was a meme that software engineers cannot do usability very well, and you need specialized designers. I think it all comes down to humility. Think about and respect the user. Do usability studies and follow their results, like Microsoft used to do in 90s. Don't let your notions of aesthetics ove…

Not saying this is always the case but I wonder if, in some of the cases, this is what makes it hard for designers to get accepted in open source: the fact that many of the developers are also users and as such are pretty opinionated while the designers that come to open source might often be very eager to "set their mark" on something?

I doubt there are many designers working on OSS who don't also use it.

I' even doubt the premise that there are terrible open source UIs created by designers. The vast majority of OSS GUI apps were probably styled by programmers, and I think they proved quite well over last 20 years that they chose well when not becoming designers.

The problem with design is also that it doesn't work very well in the "bazaar" style of development. Consistency is possibly the single most important feature of good design, and it gets hard to achieve without central authorities.

Re: How the Web Became Unreadable

#167

Post by ryuker16 »

jonstokes wrote: post #55

Designers are ruining software in general. iTunes, the iOS music app, and Google Maps are just a few pieces of software that started out relatively usable (if not exactly stable in the case of iTunes), and have been iterated and stylized to the point where I routinely get enraged by them. At least Google Maps has walked back that terrible accordion thing that literally drove me crazy. I basically think design is like…

Id imagine designers are well aware of the issues of unreadable text for those with vision problems.

Some of these apps are targeting a younger demographic exclusively. If you do stuff that pisses off 25% of your base or makes your app unusable, the complaints will be swift..... then management is on your ass.

I run a few online store..... know exactly when the payment proccessing app or cart is having issues/ unusable becuase my customers will call me.

Re: How the Web Became Unreadable

#168

Post by mianos »

treehau5 wrote: post #76
usaphp wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Designers are ruining software in general. iTunes, the iOS music app, and Google Maps are just a few pieces of software that started out relatively usable" Did it ever occurs to you that they had far less functionality when these examples were created? Backend programmers kept piling functionality into these apps and at some point no matter how good a designer is it just gets overwhelmed.

> Backend programmers kept piling functionality into these apps and at some point no matter how good a designer is it just gets overwhelmed. Wow that's the first time I have heard the problem phrased this way. Usually it's the other way around -- the designers and product leads want to pile on so many features and the backend devs can't keep up, so the codebase turns into a rotten pile of shit.

There was a lot of functionality added so to address this, they reduced the contrast of all the fonts? Nope. A more likely story is, as they added more functionality they delegated what could have done by people with less skills than a programmer because there are not enough of them. The end result is the people who care about well something works are just working on the program. The rest of the hangers on are trying to make their mark by using uber cool typography. I'll be the first to admit the lighter fonts look cool but they don't help you with your real job.

Re: How the Web Became Unreadable

#169

Post by Ancient »

So much for Microformats (http://microformats.org) which people were once crazed about but I never see developers concerned or interested in. :(

Maybe it's my perspective that it's not widely implemented or talked about in blogs, though I see WordPress has plugins for it. We (the web community) should (should have) pushed more towards a larger usage -- it's not too late folks.

Re: How the Web Became Unreadable

#170

Post by z3t4 »

For readability you want big text and max contrast. The black text on white background will make the eyes focus more, and might explain why some people feel eye strain. Also the black sucks up the light in the room. You can use colors (both text and background) to draw attention, instead of text contrast suggested in modern guides. Remember to always design for content and readability first!
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