What If the Newspaper Industry Made a Colossal Mistake? • Hacker News Board

Re: What If the Newspaper Industry Made a Colossal Mistake?

#161

Post by rhizome » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 6:55 PM UTC

betenoire wrote: post #159

rhizome wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it about journalism that requires standards like plumbers, doctors, and accountants? More to the point, if you look at the reasons why plumbers, doctors, and locksmiths are held to standards, which ones apply to journalism? Note also that journalism is the only one of your mentioned professions that is specifically called out for protection in the Constitution.

> More to the point, if you look at the reasons why plumbers, doctors, and locksmiths are held to standards, which ones apply to journalism? Which ones don't? The freedom of the press is the same thing as free speech, it applies to all of us. Correct me if you are referring to something else and I'm misunderstanding. There are best practices in journalism, no? Disclosure, ethics, etc. How can I know if someone I rely…

Which ones don't?

I contend that none of them do.

Re: What If the Newspaper Industry Made a Colossal Mistake?

#162

Post by ChoHag » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 8:50 PM UTC

Senji wrote: post #158

ryuker16 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skilled trades dont have a political bias in terms of skill application. There is no isis way of plumbing or dark art of wiring.

On the contrary.

Absolutely there's an ISIS of plumbling and a dark art of wiring but it comes from the opposite side to that which we expect.

I've mostly plumbed, entirely wired and partially built my own house. I can see better ways to do what I did, of course, and much much worse ways to do what I did. The boiler installer I hired was, thankfully, top notch (I am ridiculously careful with gas).

Oh and I also installed the fibre, installed an ethernet and wifi router, protected it all with a firewall and integrated a server and VPN.

And I grow about ⅔ of my food.

I do all of this without being qualified to do any more than make a coffee and people who are actually 'qualified' (or, more realistically, licensed) have mostly congratulated me on my work.

Should I have done none of these thing because Whitehall thinks erroneously that I'm too stupid? Fuck those cunts. My daughter is safe, has good friends, is well fed and well educated despite their bureaucracy, not because of it.

If anyone thinks I should not have done the plumbing or the electrification, despite being unlicensed, explain why growing my own food and configuring my own internet are OK. Or try and convince my that I should sacrifice my router to my government. And if you attempt (and you will fail utterly) to do that, prepare to be told to fuck right off.

Re: What If the Newspaper Industry Made a Colossal Mistake?

#163

Post by yourapostasy » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 9:58 PM UTC

matt4077 wrote: post #114

yourapostasy wrote: post #44

Some of the more dynamic content from the NYT is coming the closest to what I would want to pay a subscription for, but still far from my threshold to pay. Static word content that we once paid handsomely for (in terms of ad space and subscription fees) is regurgitated at far lower cost everywhere now. But I've yet to see widespread adoption of content with active models to work with, even download and run for yourse…

Well they're doing quite a lot in data-journalism. The Upshot (NYT) and 538 have git organizations. Others are trying the "timeless" content you're describing – I'd say Vox's "cards" come close (but are horribly boring tbh) Problem is – besides politics not always being easy to capture numerically – that the economics of such a model probably wouldn't work. It'd probably increase costs by factor of at least 5, and I…

If the publishing market is destined to stay bifurcated, then it is a sad commentary on the descent of the Net down the same well-trodden path that television took to mediocrity and unfulfilled promise.

There is a market for such data- and analytically-heavy publishing at the very high end. Actionable-oriented industry-specific analysis selling for $10K USD per year and magnitudes higher are purchased in very small quantities by trading firms, for example. Back in the BBS days, I was hopeful that the then-nascent Net would make it easier and less expensive to share, collate and test ideas and data on a larger scale, and evolve publishing to a more live- and continuously-curated ideas marketplace, so to speak. But I suspect you might be correct, and the ad-driven, entertainment-oriented content will crowd out what I had hoped for in a re-proving of Gresham's law for mass consumption content.

Re: What If the Newspaper Industry Made a Colossal Mistake?

#164

Post by betenoire » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 12:16 AM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #161

betenoire wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More to the point, if you look at the reasons why plumbers, doctors, and locksmiths are held to standards, which ones apply to journalism? Which ones don't? The freedom of the press is the same thing as free speech, it applies to all of us. Correct me if you are referring to something else and I'm misunderstanding. There are best practices in journalism, no? Disclosure, ethics, etc. How can I know if someone I rely…

Which ones don't? I contend that none of them do.

In your opinion, why is it ok to regulate lock pickers? What are the reasons that you think don't apply?

Re: What If the Newspaper Industry Made a Colossal Mistake?

#165

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 11:31 AM UTC

Bellthorpe wrote: post #157

dredmorbius wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buzzfeed, who are way up my shit list for clickbait crap, have nonetheless done some phenomenally good reporting on the TPP and ISDS issue, including multi-part deep coverage. You've got to dig for the good stuff, but it actually is there.

That report was alarmist, factually wrong in some places, and draw some ridiculous conclusions.

How, specifically?

Re: What If the Newspaper Industry Made a Colossal Mistake?

#166

Post by ryuker16 » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 2:07 PM UTC

ChoHag wrote: post #162

Senji wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary.

Absolutely there's an ISIS of plumbling and a dark art of wiring but it comes from the opposite side to that which we expect. I've mostly plumbed, entirely wired and partially built my own house. I can see better ways to do what I did, of course, and much much worse ways to do what I did. The boiler installer I hired was, thankfully, top notch (I am ridiculously careful with gas). Oh and I also installed the fibre, i…

Your pretty skilled at DIY. Your average person ime has incredible difficulty hooking up a surround sound audio system or setting up a router.

If you screw up a router install you have no internet. Screw up a diy plumbing job...

Re: What If the Newspaper Industry Made a Colossal Mistake?

#167

Post by panglott » Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 5:50 PM UTC

angry-hacker wrote: post #40

panglott wrote: post #8

"Online editions offer a 'less-than-satisfactory' reading experience, she writes, cluttered with intrusive ads and hampered by poor design." Our local newspaper's Web site is terrible. It's not just lack of investment; they rolled out a new HTML5 Web site that demonstrates to me that bad HTML5 is the worst-yet flavor of bad HTML. But this doesn't mean that the strategic error was digital news; it means the strategic…

So what is bad about it? It sounds strange thing to say htnl5 has anything to do with it...

HTML5 just gives you lots of scope to overcomplicate the UI with animations and effects.

I'm talking about this: http://www.courier-journal.com/ News stories are displayed in internal pop-up windows—unless they don't. Why are there arrows at the side to navigate to News or Opinion sections? I actively avoid trying to get my news through this site.

Re: What If the Newspaper Industry Made a Colossal Mistake?

#168

Post by jamez1 » Fri, Oct 21, 2016, 4:39 AM UTC

orbitingpluto wrote: post #132

nathanaldensr wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a false dichotomy. Please present evidence that shows that paying for news means you are not being manipulated. I counter your lack of evidence with an opinion that states the opposite: News being written by people, almost all news has some form of bias. Sometimes it's barely there, sometimes it's in-your-face.

Spurting out 'false dichotomy' and stating that I haven't provided the necessary treatise of evidence is kind of ridiculous. I hope you can see how pretentious that sounds. If a news organization only exists because the Koch brothers own it and it operates at a loss, its primary purpose isn't to serve unbiased news, but propaganda. Contrast that to a news agency or journalist whose existence is funded only through su…

He was right, you implied paying for the news removes the manipulation, which is a ridiculous notion.

Re: What If the Newspaper Industry Made a Colossal Mistake?

#169

Post by 1812calif » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 6:06 AM UTC

ChoHag wrote: post #162

Senji wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary.

Absolutely there's an ISIS of plumbling and a dark art of wiring but it comes from the opposite side to that which we expect. I've mostly plumbed, entirely wired and partially built my own house. I can see better ways to do what I did, of course, and much much worse ways to do what I did. The boiler installer I hired was, thankfully, top notch (I am ridiculously careful with gas). Oh and I also installed the fibre, i…

In America, you are 100% allowed to do these things to your own house because you have to live with the consequences.

The trades are here to protect other people from me asserting my skill in electrician-ining, when I have no such skill but represent to others that I do.

Who is the ISIS of plumbing? I'm confused by that assertion.

Re: What If the Newspaper Industry Made a Colossal Mistake?

#170

Post by orbitingpluto » Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 6:32 AM UTC

jamez1 wrote: post #168

orbitingpluto wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spurting out 'false dichotomy' and stating that I haven't provided the necessary treatise of evidence is kind of ridiculous. I hope you can see how pretentious that sounds. If a news organization only exists because the Koch brothers own it and it operates at a loss, its primary purpose isn't to serve unbiased news, but propaganda. Contrast that to a news agency or journalist whose existence is funded only through su…

He was right, you implied paying for the news removes the manipulation, which is a ridiculous notion.

That's not what I said. I said that if you don't pay for the news, then you being manipulated is the product. That's not the same thing as simply forking over money magically removing bias. The latter is a ridiculous notion and that equates to your straw-man argument.

Do you really think a trusted news source with corporate overlords is able operate with unlimited autonomy? I would have no issue if there was a large diversity of ownership with conflicting issues. But I don't really see sufficient conflict in corporate America.