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Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

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Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#161

Post by pjmlp »

gtirloni wrote: post #144
pjmlp wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ETH was also the home of Niklaus Wirth and all his research in safe systems programming languages with Modula-2(Lillith), Oberon(Native Oberon, EthOS), Active Oberon (BlueOS) and the commercial descendent Component Pascal.

In the 2.4kbps times (.br speeds at the time) I'd print the Modula-3 manuals and have fun at home. And then I discovered I was late to the party and things were slowing down for those languages. I wish m3 had caught on. Really liked it.

I was lucky to still be part of the party and enjoy systems programming with Turbo Pascal (5.5, 6.0, 7), before I was introduced to C.

If you still would like to find Modula-3 related stuff, check http://apotheca.hpl.hp.com/ftp/pub/DEC/SRC/ .

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#162

Post by fulafel »

HSO wrote: post #2

It better be, given the cost of living and the salaries here… :-) On a more serious note, although I have no idea how this report was produced, one might note that it was produced by the WEF (a business-friendly Swiss organisation) and that it may well be part of the ongoing political debate in Switzerland on how to implement the referendum result on restricting immigration. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, objectiv…

> I have no idea how this report was produced

Also it's based on a survey responses from corporate executives. A mean name for it might be "the country popularity contest as judged by corporate fat cats". Though the survey questions do obviously direct it towards objective pastures.

Hah! The example question presented in the PR material is "In your country, to what extent is intellectual property protected?" - a poster child of where corporate executives might have a diametrically opposite view from the real makers re. what's good for the country's competitiveness.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#163

Post by pif »

erispoe wrote: post #68
guest wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Anyway, it seems like a mystery to me why tech firms like Google set up shop in small expensive Zurich instead of say cheaper, bigger Barcelona or Vienna, for example." The reason is simple: tax-evation and the like, Swiss is well known for it around Europe. That it hasn't been dealt with is not strange since we live in the age of hidden plutocracy (trading outposts and the like exist in many countries for the rich…

Switzerland managed to build a highly specialized economy in several high-value sectors: pharma, banking, computer science, micro-mechanics, manufacturing machines...

They did a good job, but please don't forget that they helped themselves by stealing tax money to other nations.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#164

Post by Annatar »

jahnu wrote: post #3
HSO wrote: post #2

It better be, given the cost of living and the salaries here… :-) On a more serious note, although I have no idea how this report was produced, one might note that it was produced by the WEF (a business-friendly Swiss organisation) and that it may well be part of the ongoing political debate in Switzerland on how to implement the referendum result on restricting immigration. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, objectiv…

Is the cost of living proportional to competitiveness? Anyway, it seems like a mystery to me why tech firms like Google set up shop in small expensive Zurich instead of say cheaper, bigger Barcelona or Vienna, for example. I'd love to know what the incentives are for them.

I'd love to know what the incentives are for them.

ETH Zürich is among the top ten computer science schools in the world, that's what.

Zürich was and is a glamorous place to live, au pair with New York, Tokyo or Milano, and after the "Brexit", Zürich is the new London now. Financial industry is withdrawing from the island and going home. Those things create incentives and an upward spiral for Zürich.

And also bear in mind that Confoederatio Helvetica has some of the lowest taxes in the world; it's every American republican's wet dream in terms of that.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#165

Post by jguegant »

ersii wrote: post #77
slantedview wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether talking about the US as a whole or any particular state, we don't compare to the modern European countries. One important way we don't compare is that healthcare and retirement costs are a massive drag on our economy. Just an hour ago I received an e-mail from my employer letting me know that their 401k matching is decreasing 1% next year, but that they're cool with it because it's still "competitive". The re…

> One important way we don't compare is that healthcare and retirement costs are a massive drag on our economy. By "our economy", do you mean private persons? The whole country? Regardless, coming from one of those magic fairylands of modern Europe - health care and retirement costs are a massive drag on our economy as well, they're just not as easily seen by general people (you certainly don't see it on your pay sli…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_h...

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#166

Post by harryf »

Hermel wrote: post #158
HSO wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in Google's case, there's ETH Zurich. Just today, I saw in the newspaper (WSJ university rankings[1]) that ETH was rated top of the pops globally in computer science. (On a related note, I remember vaguely that Disney built a research lab here in Zurich just because of one professor and his team.[2]) Also, in the good old times (= before the rise of right-wing populism and the referendum) Google could attract g…

Also note that Google acquired Swiss company Endoxon for their maps technology, providing them with many Swiss employees early on. Endoxon was much more advanced technology-wise than Google's own service at that time. That acquisition is also the reason why the Google maps team is located in Zurich.

Urs Hölzler is Swiss ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urs_Hölzle ) and as employee #8 that probably has a bigger influence if at all. That said I beleive the Endoxon guys have had impact e.g. the current lead PM on Google Maps is one of the former Endoxon team (this guy - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tYw4zNfqBNs ).

The interesting thing - from what I hear from people working at Google Zürich - is less than 10% of those working there are Swiss.

The location seems to be more about having a place to attract bright minds from Eastern Europe and even Israel that's still close enough so they can fly home easily for a weekend. So quota restrictions probably would really hurt here.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#167

Post by luispedrocoelho »

clock_tower wrote: post #87
heydenberk wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was making this point a few weeks ago and after looking into it more, I still think it's a valuable point to raise, but the truth is more nuanced than I expected. States in the US vary in nominal GSP per capita by only 2x — from Mississippi at $35K to Delaware at $70K. In the EU, it ranges from Bulgaria at €6K to Ireland at €55K. (This excludes DC and Luxembourg, which are outliers in many ways.) In fact, even Miss…

> Mississippi's GDP per capita being similar to that of France, Italy or Spain is really hard to reconcile with the fact that many of us would love to live in the latter countries and couldn't be paid to move to Mississippi. Remember good GDP versus bad GDP; a traffic jam increases GDP, but isn't anything particularly worth buying. Accumulated capital (like Notre Dame and the Louvre) doesn't show up in GDP either, an…

"Accumulated capital (like Notre Dame and the Louvre) doesn't show up in GDP either, and if anything tends to lower it."

Notre Dame and the Louvre are a couple of the things that make Paris the single biggest tourist destination in the world, from which it derives a huge amount of GDP. The French tourist officials make sure to monetize the Louvre for all they can.

*

"Mississippi's GDP per capita being similar to that of France, Italy or Spain is really hard to reconcile with the fact that many of us would love to live in the latter countries and couldn't be paid to move to Mississippi."

No, it isn't, because people wouldn't love to move to France/Italy/Spain, they don't even want to. People say they'd love to live in Spain/Italy/France, but the fact that they don't reveals it's mostly cheap talk.

There are some exceptions in professions that make well above the average for these countries (also retirees, students). Europe is really very nice if you make well above the average, but this is not (by definition) the typical life in those countries. Very few Americans are excited by a 24k take home salary in a mid-sized French town, or 15k in an Italian formerly wealthy industrial city.

The vast majority of migration flows are up the GDP gradient.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#168

Post by s3nnyy »

I live in Zurich. Due to the high-living standard, salaries, size, central location in Europe, Switzerland is probably the only country, where I'd like to live longterm. Yes things are expensive here but Swiss food is the cheapest in Europe, if you adjust for the average salary. I am trying to say: Buying power is huge. I am however unsure how long the Swiss can hold this high living standard.

You can read more in my blogpost "8 reasons why I moved to Switzerland to work in IT": https://medium.com/@iwaninzurich/eight-reasons-why-i-moved-t...

Full disclosure: I am a part-time tech recruiter and well-connected in the tech-scene in Zurich and if you're thinking of moving here and getting a job in tech, feel free to contact me - you find my email address in my HN profile.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#169

Post by Annatar »

kowdermeister wrote: post #89
HSO wrote: post #2

It better be, given the cost of living and the salaries here… :-) On a more serious note, although I have no idea how this report was produced, one might note that it was produced by the WEF (a business-friendly Swiss organisation) and that it may well be part of the ongoing political debate in Switzerland on how to implement the referendum result on restricting immigration. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, objectiv…

Is it easy to get a job in Switzerland as developer + EU citizen? Is it likely to change because of immigration regulations?

No, unless you're in a medical profession or German, or both.

Try applying for a job in Switzerland and you will get so much pre-canned refusal correspondence that your head will spin. The country is overcrowded and the Swiss are not thrilled about having foreigners in their country, unless they absolutely have no choice, and even then they secretly hate it. As far as they're concerned, if you're very rich you're welcome to buy property or drop your money into Switzerland, and you're very welcome to come visit as a tourist, but everyone should stay where they come from, no-matter-what.

Re: Switzerland is the world’s most competitive economy

#170

Post by sambe »

Could easily be true in some areas of the economy, because professionalism seems really strong there and core technology infrastructure is often ahead of surrounding areas.

However, my experience of living and working there suggests that it is very much not true in the areas I encountered: businesses cling to tradition and people prefer everything to be managed (contracts should be given to the "right" people, rules should be organised around what traditional groups want). By traditional I mean book sellers, grocers etc. You often get the feeling there is not much logic/forward thinking - only maintain what people are used to. Of course, that is a decision you are free to make, but not one that seems to tally with this article.

Designated innovation area seemed pretty dead. As a consumer the low quality of many companies' websites and ability to automate was quite surprising.

On the other hand, salaries are high almost all office jobs (debatable whether this makes sense for lower skill-sets, but nice if you live there) and it seems fairly easy to get a new job as long as you "fit" in the culture.

I can imagine that some of the big industrial tech and pharma companies are run a bit more aggressively. Finance didn't seem to be.

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