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The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

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Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#161
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

leave to Hunter S. Thompson of all people to throw a little __sobriety__ into the conversation. Somebody had to say it and he said it well.

Well, not "of all people". Hunter S. Thompson has that reputation from younger people as "crazy guy who did lots of drugs". That was part of it, but his reputation came from his writing and journalism. He created a new, influential style of gonzo journalism[1] where he was openly opinionated and wrote with emotional attachment, and certainly some exaggeration. That he's remembered as "crazy guy on drugs" instead of "…

of course, you're exactly right. there is a lot of nuance and depth to Hunter and many people wrongly conflate the man himself with his character Raoul Duke, who was a hyperbolic representation of Hunter's own libertine tendencies.

that said, yeah man, he really did do a lot of drugs, and wrote about it too. he was, however, a much more grounded and reasonable person than Tim Leary, and to his credit. Leary's excesses poisoned the well for a generation.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I got the message, and hung up the phone. My friend is also have difficulty leaving the path. A couple of months ago my buddy & I got some urgent texts from him-- he had taken a really large dose of LSD and ended up spending the next 12 hours in a emergency room's psych ward. I think that part of the reason that we have this B.S. propaganda around psychedelics (i.e. "They're the key to enlightenment!") is th…

> it can be pretty hard to encourage people to try drugs I think that in our society we have a problem with people taking too many drugs already. Deadly smoking of tobacco is decreasing but still too common (killed my mom). Booze and coffee are things people tolerate but use to adjust their mood. Pot seems to finally becoming accepted by law abiding society. But do we need to encourage more than this? As a parent of…

in place where such an evil thing as alcohol is legal and widely accepted, there is no good enough excuse to have psychedelics banned by state.

I am not saying everybody should do them, far from it, but people shouldn't be banned from access on their free will under threat of destroying the life by jail time - that's beyond ridiculous.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#163
post #128

I wonder what the effects of chemically-induced pseudowisdom are. Real wisdom, after all, is both physiological and mental, a product of experience as well as of neurochemistry. What might be the ill-effects of feeling that one has gained wisdom when in fact one has only altered one's brain chemistry?

Well, if real wisdom requires experience then the harm you are talking about is probably slightly less harmful than the pseudo-wisdom one feels when reading another persons experience in a book. After all reading a book doesn't give us an experience, its all "just" chemistry too..

> After all reading a book doesn't give us an experience, its all "just" chemistry too..

I'd disagree there. It's less experience than actually doing something, but more than just getting a chemical flow across the brain. Reading is a weak sort of experience, no?

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offtopic, but unfortunately broscience has extended beyond pharmaceuticals to training practice. This kind of thinking dominates the crossfit world with terms like "muscle confusion" and "failure". It's sad because I got into crossfit ten years ago because it was fun, something different every day kept me coming back. I didn't want to be a Navy SEAL, just to keep active, but the almost religious adherence to the trai…

Ping-pong is great, and sex.

We used to have a local ping pong group that met regularly and I had a few friends who did it. Then they lost their venue for being to loud and boisterous. Apparently there were a few people who were intense about ping pong.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offtopic, but unfortunately broscience has extended beyond pharmaceuticals to training practice. This kind of thinking dominates the crossfit world with terms like "muscle confusion" and "failure". It's sad because I got into crossfit ten years ago because it was fun, something different every day kept me coming back. I didn't want to be a Navy SEAL, just to keep active, but the almost religious adherence to the trai…

How about Kettlebell training ? It can be done easily in your home (if you have some space) and you can do great full body workouts. I was pretty much out of shape when I've started it two years ago and now I feel great. The people over at the Kettlebell subreddit are quite helpful: https://www.reddit.com/r/kettlebell The FAQs show some good starting points https://www.reddit.com/r/kettlebell/wiki/index Maybe this is…

I have a few around. When I lifted competitively (15 years ago?) we had a few Pavel guys in the community. Nice guys but... weird.

My biggest issue with kettlebells is that my basement ceiling is low so swinging them is probably out and I've only got 7 months or so of outdoor training. I'll check it out, however, can't hurt to ask.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#166
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Offtopic, but unfortunately broscience has extended beyond pharmaceuticals to training practice. This kind of thinking dominates the crossfit world with terms like "muscle confusion" and "failure". It's sad because I got into crossfit ten years ago because it was fun, something different every day kept me coming back. I didn't want to be a Navy SEAL, just to keep active, but the almost religious adherence to the trai…

Have you tried interval training? I've had the best return on effort with that out of everything I've tried (jogging, traditional gym work, cycling). It's light on broscience and seems to be supported by all the 'real' scientific testing. It only takes 10-15 minutes per day and it's completely self-guided (I use a timer app on my phone to keep track of intervals.)

Like HIIT? A bit. I did the NYTimes 7 minute workout for a bit to try and break out of a rut. It was pretty good, but I fell off that wagon too, partially lack of variety, I think. It reminded me a bit of basic training. I think there's got to be a market for guided training like that. They were often used for punishment, but I liked grass drills.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#167
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

leave to Hunter S. Thompson of all people to throw a little __sobriety__ into the conversation. Somebody had to say it and he said it well.

Well, not "of all people". Hunter S. Thompson has that reputation from younger people as "crazy guy who did lots of drugs". That was part of it, but his reputation came from his writing and journalism. He created a new, influential style of gonzo journalism[1] where he was openly opinionated and wrote with emotional attachment, and certainly some exaggeration. That he's remembered as "crazy guy on drugs" instead of "…

really glad you pointed this out. I had to run to my copy of Kingdom of Fear after reading the Leary quote and get away from the internet after reading some of this stuff.

My favorite passage is kind of a combination of the crazy guy, eloquent and beautiful writer, with deep and insightful commentary: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1074-strange-memories-on-thi...

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about Kettlebell training ? It can be done easily in your home (if you have some space) and you can do great full body workouts. I was pretty much out of shape when I've started it two years ago and now I feel great. The people over at the Kettlebell subreddit are quite helpful: https://www.reddit.com/r/kettlebell The FAQs show some good starting points https://www.reddit.com/r/kettlebell/wiki/index Maybe this is…

I have a few around. When I lifted competitively (15 years ago?) we had a few Pavel guys in the community. Nice guys but... weird. My biggest issue with kettlebells is that my basement ceiling is low so swinging them is probably out and I've only got 7 months or so of outdoor training. I'll check it out, however, can't hurt to ask.

swinging shouldn't be a problem if you are doing the russian swing (maximum shoulder height).

For the more advanced exercises military press, snatch and clean and jerk you need a room where you can stand up with your hands straight above your head.

I am training outside the whole year, but it doesn't get extremely cold here in winter -5° to -10° Celsius is pretty much the minimum. But I am under a roof and so it works for me (but I have to store the Kettlebells indoor so the handles are warm).

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not the OC, but I think he was going on about how you apparently attributed a certain level of "reason" to evolution. His contention is that evolution exists free of reason. I think you two are disagreeing on the term reason. You mean "reason" in the sense of "why" and he means reason in the sense of "logical conditions". The why is an interesting question, what environmental or other factors provided an advanta…

'Negative'? That seems a touch harsh, although possibly just because I find myself on the pointy end.

Maybe less "negative" and more "non-constructive". It is a personal annoyance of mine when a reply points out a flaw or misunderstanding, but does so behind a veil of ambiguity. It completely passes up on a chance to educate the OP, and instead leaves them feeling uncertain.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#170
post #140
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making an assumption that "freakouts" is necessarily a bad thing. Freakouts can have some severe material consequences (including as we saw, death), but antipsychotics do not necessarily help. Humans have a normalcy bias such that, anything that is unfamiliar are to be considered with caution, fear, and even anger. There's a tendency to use antipsychotics to get someone to a state of what's considered "normal"…

Once upon a time I took everything under the sun. I don't judge people for doing the same. But if you're claiming to "guide" people through a trip with potential for physical harm (and in an inustrialized, urban environment, that's pretty much all of them), you're goddamn right I'll judge you if you fuck someone up. If a hospital pulled this shit and didn't even try to mitigate potential harm, they'd be shut down. Wo…

You make some good points.

However, I'm not speaking about whether someone's action is worthy or unworthy, but rather, the specific reaction of judgement itself as a form of conscious energy. When examined energetically, the intention of judging itself is often a form of social aggression, usually in reaction to aversion.

Aversion is a natural instinct when we come across something that is toxic, or more precisely, perceived as toxic to our bodies. Toxins get expelled. This is very natural, at least for human bodies.

The thing is that Consciousness spans more than being human, and it persists beyond the our given lifetime as a human. We trade roles and act out this theatre where, sometimes you are the one judging, and sometimes you are the one being judged for the same actions. What is toxic at some level of teaching is not toxic at other levels of teaching. The teaching that an individual needs is specific to that moment, in that setting.

Also, 'harm' and 'potential harm' is not so simple. There are physical, emotional, and mental damage that can be inflicted, both accidentally and deliberately. However, it's been my experience that people generally confuse pain with suffering, and conflate the two. Pain can be measured and compared, but suffering cannot. Suffering does not result from pain so much as it results from going against the natural flow of consciousness. So when we speak of "harm" in the conventional sense, we measure it in terms of pain, but we are often really speaking of "suffering" in the subtext, or subconsciously.

When people are reacting to freakouts, they are not usually reacting to the potential danger so much as the suffering from the arising fear of that danger. The aversion to suffering is so strong, there's this spiraling effect as the fear in participants start resonating, and then compound out of control. From this perspective, judgement is a kind of immune response to toxic energies, and while it might be appropriate outside of ceremony space, it isn't necessarily helping you as a participant if you focus too much on judging others within the ceremony. This is, after all, gaining insight about yourself. A good question to be asking at that point is, "What am I learning from this experience of me judging someone else?"

To come back to your points though: what I said above comes out in groups that act responsibly, and can provide a reasonably safe place to explore dangerous aspects of life like that. They don't spike the brew. I've been with groups where there are EMT or an MD on hand. There are sufficient facilities to isolate someone going through an intense journey (which always look like freakouts). There are sober helpers to make sure people get what they need ... and keep the knives hidden away. The shamans know how to deal with the really nasty stuff that will pop up once in a while.

While the nature of medicine is such that many will experience a safe way to explore some very dangerous stuff, one of the things people explore is life, and the inherent dangers and risks of life. At some point in someone's journey, they learn by taking falls and getting back up.

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