Live data from Hacker News

Italy’s teetering banks will be Europe’s next crisis

economist.com

161–170 of 240 posts

Re: Italy’s teetering banks will be Europe’s next crisis

#161
post #157
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have cash in Italian banks, GTFOASAP That makes no sense at all. Just don't keep cash and invest everything except for a small contingency fund.

Excuse my really basic understanding of Economics, but how "investing everything" does keep you away from losing money to the bank in which your funds are? Aren't, the money you invest, already in a bank, and associated to your fund? If the bank fails how can you manage your investments (as I suppose you will lose your bank account if the bank fails)

Putting cash in a bank account is actually you lending money to the bank (for them to lend to other people), not a neutral store of an asset, like if you put physical bills or gold or whatever in a safe. If the bank goes bankrupt, that mean it's creditors (you) don't get paid, or get paid less than they're owed. To prop up trust in the banking system, governments insure bank deposits, in the Eurozone up to a value of €100k.

If you invest instead, you own (a piece of) something physical - a business or a property, typically. A house can burn down and the business can go bankrupt, in which case you lose your investment (unless you're insured). Banks in Italy are incredibly unhealthy at the moment, so to protect your money, you would want to put it in something more healthy, which might simply be a bank account in a not-Italian bank, or as proposed, assets of healthy businesses.

Reneging on an insurance guarantee or forcefully converting deposits to a different currency is a substantially different legal beast than confiscating property (which your shares would be). Perhaps, given that they serve roughly the same end, that shouldn't be the case, but it is.

Re: Italy’s teetering banks will be Europe’s next crisis

#162
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still haven't seen a good reasoning why the Euro is to blame for the economic problems in southern Europe. It certainly is a issue that those countries can't devalue their currency anymore, but devaluing is not a miracle cure.

Devaluation definitely worked for the Italian economy. This plot shows the difference between the Italian GDP per capita and the Eurozone average GDP per capita. The vertical blue line marks the day the exchange rates between European currencies were fixed. http://i.imgur.com/mmD8kP7.jpg

do you think that the euro is the only reason? If you ask people on the street the real reason behind Italy's fall is the rise of China, Italy used to have a lot of small manufacturing businesses, which are now pretty much gone or dying, and leading to the issues you are seeing with the GDP as well as contributing to the bank problems (small businesses can try to stay afloat with bank loans for a while)

It also didn't help that when the Euro came in many, many, many shopkeepers repriced 1000 lire = 1€ (basically raising prices by 100%) which although I don't think was tied to GDP issues, it sure caused major pain for normal working folks.

Re: Italy’s teetering banks will be Europe’s next crisis

#163
post #22
post #17

Euro is nothing but a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_trick

Money is always a confidence trick. It is only valuable to you because you are confident that it is valuable to other people.

do you draw a distinction between currency and money?

Re: Italy’s teetering banks will be Europe’s next crisis

#164
post #149
post #24

It’s easy for Merkel to insist that Italy has to strictly follow EU rules since she doesn’t have to win an Italian election. The Euro just seems like a complete failure. Giant economies are limping along with 20% unemployment, unable to recover 8 years after the recession. In contrast the US has managed an OK recovery, now closing in on full employment. The problem is that each EU national leader is accountable only…

The US is closing in on "Full Employment", if by Full Employment, you mean: January 2008 Labor Participation Rate: 66.2% July 2016 Labor Participation Rate: 62.7% 62.7% participation means 94 Million Americans are not working. (Source: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/labor-force-... ) Full Employment only calculates people who are actively looking for work; anyone else is not part of that calculation.…

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_State... 27.1% of the US is under 21 and 14.5% is over 65. I know 16 should be working but a good chunk should be getting education. That leaves only 58.4% even eligible for labor participation.

Re: Italy’s teetering banks will be Europe’s next crisis

#165

Oh noes a bank is in trouble? Well not to worry, tax payers will gladly bail it out, while the bankers collect their bonuses and leave "for the next big challenge". Fuck I love banking.

You're beef should be with government (crony-capitalism), not banking. A bank can't force you to bail it out, only government can do that. The "force" 100% resides with the government, not the bank.

Re: Italy’s teetering banks will be Europe’s next crisis

#166
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is closing in on "Full Employment", if by Full Employment, you mean: January 2008 Labor Participation Rate: 66.2% July 2016 Labor Participation Rate: 62.7% 62.7% participation means 94 Million Americans are not working. (Source: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/labor-force-... ) Full Employment only calculates people who are actively looking for work; anyone else is not part of that calculation.…

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_State... 27.1% of the US is under 21 and 14.5% is over 65. I know 16 should be working but a good chunk should be getting education. That leaves only 58.4% even eligible for labor participation.

this x2

we are at full employment and those statements about only 62% employment might need to be looked at in more detail, they are wildly inaccurate when looking at the big picture, I am astounded this is even considered as reality.

how many families have both parents working if there are two in a house?

those numbers are based on use of welfare and unemployment. if those statements were alarming the people that are homeless would be astronomical at the moment.

http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/p...

Re: Italy’s teetering banks will be Europe’s next crisis

#167
I am really amazed and frighten everytime I read anything about politics - economics on HN.

So we see all this BS about "work less", "meditation", "how trees calm us down", etc. but in fact when you do read across the lines you only see a crowd of hypsters totally obsessed with economics, money-money-money, free market, productivity, basicaly : materialism as the holy grail.

Allo ? Is there any European in these comments ? I mean, we all know the USA where a European colony from the XVI century, but the country as it is today seems to be born only 250 years ago, and maybe more acurately with the secession war and the yankees take over. That my friend is just nothing, dust in the wind, in the scale of history.

So we have this bunch of unsocializes nerds IT guys asking for every European nation to give up their own culture and souveirgnty for a centralized Federal State, certainly in the model of the glorious USA, and if possible infeodated to it. What's the next move, maybe get rid of any state currency to go all the way with bs bitcoins ?

France was born in 496 when Clovis was baptized as a catholic. Our history and culture is not about cars, movies, fast foods and Wall Street. Just come and visit to check it out and learn a few things about the history of the world.

There is more than Banking and Wall street and metrics and GDP in life. Actually, let me correct this, these are all the things which are actually not Life. So just respect the right of a nation to exists as it is and to give to her childrend what her parents gave her since centuries.

So Brexit is all in the rage now, great, the world is collapsing, maybe Germany will engage war with UK and laucnh a bunch of V2, who knows ? Bullshit. UK will go fine walking away, much better in fact that France and Germany are right now, our corrupted politics just fear that all the nations figures that sooner or later and ask to leave EU asap.

LET ME REMIND ALL THE HN READERS OF SOMETHING RIGHT NOW : Brexit is no a unique event, some want not to remember that France, Netherlands and Ireland had their own "Brexit" moments and the EU did denied the rights of these people to leave. I urge you to refer to the 2005 french referendum about the EU constitution, who was rejected by the french people, just to have it passed a few month later by the parliament denying any direct democratic right to the nation. That went also in the Netherlands. And they made people of Ireland vote twice, just till they vote what they wanted them to.

Please, do not make Europe another heartless Silicon Bullshit Valley with absolutely no history except the atrocious gold rush and the infamous tech boom. Facebook is not history, let us keep Pascal and Academie Française in lieu of Snapchat and Tinder, if you please, in the name of the french people.

I said.

Re: Italy’s teetering banks will be Europe’s next crisis

#169
post #24

It’s easy for Merkel to insist that Italy has to strictly follow EU rules since she doesn’t have to win an Italian election. The Euro just seems like a complete failure. Giant economies are limping along with 20% unemployment, unable to recover 8 years after the recession. In contrast the US has managed an OK recovery, now closing in on full employment. The problem is that each EU national leader is accountable only…

"The Euro just seems like a complete failure. Giant economies are limping along with 20% unemployment, unable to recover 8 years after the recession. In contrast the US has managed an OK recovery, now closing in on full employment." You are aware that the problem with the EU banking reforms (or lack off) was also that the UK didn't wanted stricter rules with regards of the city of London... ? They even wanted an exem…

The EU and Eurozone are two different entities. The UK is not part of the Eurozone.

Re: Italy’s teetering banks will be Europe’s next crisis

#170
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Why?

You definitely don't sound like you hqve.

Looks like you were mistaken then.

If you want to make a substantial point, you'll need to address the content of the points I raised rather than wasting our time with ad hominems. Why do you find it far fetched that people can choose to vote for those that will represent their best interests?

Post reply on HN