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The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

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Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#161

Post by cjjuice »

netcan wrote: post #82

I'm strangely moved by this whole thing. It's a pretty decent status check on where we are with democracy ATM. I'm not against democracy, but I do think we need to pay attention to what it can & can't do. On one hand, this has been a model of democracy. A primary election agenda and referendum. The phrasing of the question was simple, clear and unbiased. The "will of the people" won over the will of the ruling struct…

Plato was always cautious of Democracy. If you are interested I would recommend give his "Republic" a read.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#162

Post by Dr_tldr »

As someone with no dog in this fight, I have to say that many of the pro-stay comments here are dismissive, arrogant, and the epitome of hand-waving "we know best and everyone who disagrees with us is stupid or evil." It's an ugly and insular attitude that is itself usually a sign of ignorance of the other side's arguments and motivations. As a dev, I find it hard to believe that someone who can be so easily blinkered and so dismissive of others is going to be able to show flexibility and humility in their code and engineering decisions.

And maybe you're just that good at compartmentalizing, but I wouldn't want to risk bringing someone like that onto my team. How can you work with people who you think are stupid and ignorant when they disagree with you, even when you won't explain your reasoning? And how will you ever be able to switch sides and admit you may have been wrong when you state your initial position in such absolutist terms?

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#163

Post by NDizzle »

thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #154
Inthenameofmine wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We haven't figured this shit out yet. Kings anyone? How about the best wrestler gets to be in charge? ideas? As a Swiss citizen, I think the swiss system is very close to perfect in this regard. Sure, emotional and stupid arguments sometimes prevail, but most of the time the people make the perfect decision. Public discourse is most often also very rational, more so than most world parliaments. Irrational arguments…

what part of California are you referring to?

Probably Marin.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#164

Post by jeady »

thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #154
Inthenameofmine wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We haven't figured this shit out yet. Kings anyone? How about the best wrestler gets to be in charge? ideas? As a Swiss citizen, I think the swiss system is very close to perfect in this regard. Sure, emotional and stupid arguments sometimes prevail, but most of the time the people make the perfect decision. Public discourse is most often also very rational, more so than most world parliaments. Irrational arguments…

what part of California are you referring to?

They're referring to California's statewide referendum system so the answer would be "all of California".

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#165

Post by Inthenameofmine »

epalmer wrote: post #58
Amezarak wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would actually wager the average American understands the federal government much better than their state government, due to the hyperfocus in schools and in the media on the federal government. State and local governments get away with incredible amounts of nonsense because people don't know or care anything about them.

I agree. My daughter knows both. She just graduated High School. She has lobbied Congress and The Senate at the federal level and written a state bill (with 2 other high school students) that passed and was signed by our governor. While her experience is unusual, the schools here focus on us history and us government history. I do think when I was in high school I learned more about the rest of the world than they do…

> She has lobbied Congress and The Senate at the federal level and written a state bill (with 2 other high school students) that passed and was signed by our governor.

At least doing auch lobbying and drafting was possible. This would be unthinkable in the EU. The disconnect to even the highly involved politically aware person in the EU to the power structures is huge. In manu cases purposefully and by design so. After all, the EU was born oit of a price pact essentially stablished though conglomerate economic interest. (steel, coal, electricity, transport, machinery).

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#167

Post by emsy »

What I're read so far about pro-leavers:

-They are stupid.

-They are xenophobic racists (over 50% of the population!).

-Trump welcomes the Brexit, so being pro-leave is stupid.

-Old people vote "leave" since they don't have to face the consequences as long as the young people, and old people have no clue.

-"Leave" votes come mainly from E.U. subsidized areas, thus they bite the hand that feeds them.

-Pro-leave doesn't even know what the E.U. is.

I have read a lot of insults regarding either position, but the attribution of stupidity comes almost always from the "Remain" camp. Which comes close to saying: there are no reasons to vote for leave, so they must be stupid. How stupid.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#168

Post by thesimpsons1022 »

jeady wrote: post #164
thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what part of California are you referring to?

They're referring to California's statewide referendum system so the answer would be "all of California".

well he's making it sound like a bad thing, so I wanted to know what exactly he meant.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#169

Post by rtpg »

rayiner wrote: post #151
netcan wrote: post #82

I'm strangely moved by this whole thing. It's a pretty decent status check on where we are with democracy ATM. I'm not against democracy, but I do think we need to pay attention to what it can & can't do. On one hand, this has been a model of democracy. A primary election agenda and referendum. The phrasing of the question was simple, clear and unbiased. The "will of the people" won over the will of the ruling struct…

Democracy is fine. The intellectual class just needs to learn to respect it. There is pretty much nothing that deserves to be decided by the will of the people--their values, their emotions, their world views--than the question of "what body politic do I want to belong to?" The deep irony of the anti-Brexit narrative is that the same people would froth at the mouth if you said "India would've been better off economic…

Honestly the India comparison is "slightly" exaggerated.

British people could vote for European MPs. It's not like the UK was colonised by Europe.

There is devolution of sovereignty but you're gonna basically end up with that with the kind of trade pacts the EU demands anyways.

Lots of symbolism involved of course.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#170

Post by the_common_man »

alexcason wrote: post #13

"Even though I voted to leave, this morning I woke up and I just — the reality did actually hit me," one woman told the news channel ITV News. "If I'd had the opportunity to vote again, it would be to stay."

So? It is just one woman.
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