California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents • Hacker News Board

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#161

Post by rconti » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 4:54 PM UTC

cylinder wrote: post #152

tsunamifury wrote: post #78

We've lost most of our friends now, and the roots we were putting down over the last 7 years are eroding a bit. For the record our household income fluctuates between 300 and 400k and we live in a microhouse (500sqft) in Berkeley. Expanding is a difficult proposition. Its an interesting set of factors that lets me buy a Ferrari far easier than a house. First lifestyle money, then tech money, now foreign investment. A…

What am I missing -- rent for large houses in nice East Bay suburbs seems to be around $3500-$4000 a month which is easily less than a third of your take-home income. I'm not sure about Berkeley proper.

Yeah. I don't know. We bought a real house on the Peninsula on far less income.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#162

Post by rm_-rf_slash » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 4:54 PM UTC

shawndumas wrote: post #57

aphextron wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, it's not impossible. My salary went up 50% when I moved here.

When Yahoo bought Interclick, and then subsequently brought us out, they gave my team CoL bumps that had us at roughly the same level in the Bay Area as we were in South Florida. But we were away from the heat/humidity, lack of undulation, and bugs (flying cockroaches; ugh).

And the bullets.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#163

Post by ryandrake » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

wanderr wrote: post #77

As someone who enjoys being outdoors, I love CA and the Bay Area especially. The weather is great year round, and there is so much spectacular and wildly different areas to see within a relatively short drive, it's amazing. But the cost of living is completely insane. It doesn't help that I moved from one of the cheapest places to live (Gainesville, FL), but my salary just about tripled when I made the move, and it's…

I'm a Florida transplant as well and I agree with you 100%. Used to live on the beach for 1/4 of what I pay here to live 2 hours from work. I'd love to go back, but the "opportunity risk" is real. You lose your tech job suddenly in the Bay Area, and you might spend 3-6 months and you're back at work. You lose your tech job in Florida, and you're probably going to be moving out of the state.

Tons of people have already popped up in these threads saying things like "But Austin!" And "What about Raleigh-Durham?" etc. While there might be greater than 1 tech company in these areas, they still don't hold a candle to the Bay Area when it comes to where you best mitigate the risk of job loss.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#164

Post by sk8ingdom » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 4:56 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #39

When people saying housing costs are out of control in California, really they mean the bay area. Every other part of the state is no worse than anywhere else.

This is objectively not true [1] and has the same sort of arrogance that frustrates people who live in other areas of the state. Is the cost of living ridiculous? Absolutely, but the higher-than-average salaries at least help compensate.

Consider, for example, San Diego [2], which is considered the worst city for long term wealth accumulation in the entire USA.

1. http://www.trulia.com/home_prices/California/ 2. http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/oct/26/san-die...

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#165

Post by sbardle » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 4:57 PM UTC

iofj wrote: post #134

eweise wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean what would all the government workers do when they get too old to work? I don't know but I don't get a pension so why should I pay for theirs?

Given that interest rates are 0.25% and inflation (non-core, the one you'll be paying) is >3% ... what is your alternative ? A pension is the only chance you have of a decent life when you get old. There is nothing else.

I'm hoping Basic Income will be up and running by the time I hit my late 60s.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#166

Post by toast0 » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 4:58 PM UTC

shiftpgdn wrote: post #29

TDL wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being from Chicago I say it's a good thing to pay down the pension obligations. Pension obligations can cause a lot of problems in the future. Although I don't believe governments should be growing their budgets aggressively, squaring gov obligations is a good thing.

Why do government pensions even exist anymore? There is absolutely no reason for them and they need to go. The government can pay a reasonable salary if they wanted skilled workers.

It's much harder for a government employer to remove a pension than for a private employer, so it's going to take a lot longer for the public sector to eliminate pensions than it has taken the private sector.

Governments tend not to go out of business, or get acquired. Governments rarely have the finances to buy out a pension (if they did, they would fund their pension obligations). Governments have a much harder time implementing a dual class workforce where newer employees don't get a pension, because they will often see public pressure when terms of employment are unequal -- a private employer may get pressured too, it can ignore it.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#167

Post by rm_-rf_slash » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 4:58 PM UTC

Anyone else alarmed that a doctor was leaving because the rent was too high?

A doctor is one of the jobs that is expected to pay top dollar in American society.

If a doctor can't make it in the Bay Area, who's going to cut your hair, serve your beer, or mow your lawn?

If wages don't rise in line with skyrocketing living costs, then the only alternative is a permenantly impoverished underclass.

People of the Bay Area: are you ok with that?

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#168

Post by FuturePromise » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 4:59 PM UTC

nugget wrote: post #28

I spent most of my childhood in California. Real estate is and always has been the number one industry in the state. The majority of my childhood friends' wealth seems to derive from houses their families bought in the early 80s or earlier. Prices have benefited from a stable of one trick ponies - fixed low property taxes (prop 13), massive population growth (net domestic migration is now negative), job growth from t…

Property taxes are not "low". Even under Prop 13, they go up 2% a year.

California's property taxes are about median for the nation. It has the absolute highest income tax (for incomes above $1MM) and near the highest sales tax.

So anyone who opposes Prop 13 is simply wrong. Without it, California would have the highest tax in the nation, by far. With such a large tax base, there's no need to tax that high percentage wise. The money is being wasted.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#169

Post by FuturePromise » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:00 PM UTC

fiatmoney wrote: post #110

Just wait until enough democratic voters are imported to overturn Proposition 13 (caps property taxes at roughly what they were when you bought the house, and requires 2/3 vote in the legislature for tax increases). California is trying so hard to go full Venezuela, and the only buffer they have are the three or so major industries that are doing well (agriculture, entertainment, and tech). If there's a contraction i…

It doesn't really "cap it". It can go up 2% a year, and does!

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#170

Post by antimatter » Thu, Jun 23, 2016, 5:00 PM UTC

overcast wrote: post #24

manacit wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, hobbies and preferences are inherently subjective, but CA has a lot to offer. Parts of the state have (what I consider) perfect weather year round; access to the beach and mountains to ski/snowboard, tons of other outdoor activities, etc. You can find most of these in other places, of course, but CA is pretty unique in that it's all in the same state, and easily accessible.

No one is denying the beauty, and adventures that await in California, that's why people live there. The issue here is what the original article is all about. When it becomes a grind just to live there, you can't even enjoy what makes it so awesome to be there.

This. I've lived in Los Angeles almost my whole life. I visited the beach maybe once in the last 5 years. Why? Because to do so, you have to be willing to sit in at least 1-1.5 hours of traffic. When you get there, at least 30 min to find parking. There are simply too many people in CA at this point to enjoy anything it offers. Leaving the house for me means waiting (in traffic, lines, for parking, etc).