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Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

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Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#161

Post by NEDM64 »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #17
danso wrote: post #14

Ironically, I sometimes fear Apple would be the harbinger of programming's death, what with how much can be done via consumer-friendly app and touch-screens. It didn't help hearing about OSX becoming macOS, which would be well in line with a dystopian future in which the only people who need to know about plaintext and file systems are the full-time Apple programmers. But this sounds like a great initiative...and als…

I think the invention of the GUI killed the dream of mainstream programming. If computers had to be interacted with in ways that resembled programming - like a UNIX prompt - then people would be more used to the way computers actually work, with functions and parameters instead of icons and settings menus. I really hope that raspberry PI gets more mainstream appeal as time goes on. I fear the separation between coder…

Why do people think that having programming skills is something that people of the future need? It's useless for most of people, and for many people who know how to program, is also useless for them too, as most if not all their needs are already fulfilled by someone else.

I think it's more important for the younger generation to learn about other things, some of them I do not know.

Things like agriculture, law, music theory, etc. are much more important than programming.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#163

Post by VPrime »

plg wrote: post #32

I took my kid to one of these last year. It was fairly useless. They drag around little action-icons into a list to make an animated character move around and do stuff. My 11-year-old was bored stiff. Edit: PS the Apple Store employee who ran this thing (he was a very nice guy) admitted he had zero coding experience himself

If you're looking for something a bit more advanced, but still not jumping right into the deep end check out our iPad app hyperPad (https://www.hyperpad.com). We never intended it for teaching kids to code, but schools and teachers from the around the world love it for introducing younger kids to code.

It has a lot of the the coding principles applied in a visual even driven environment making it fun and easy to create cool interactive games.

We're also working on adding other cool things like HTTP requests and sockets so users can connect to servers to send/receive data.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#164

Post by exolymph »

schoen wrote: post #98
schoen wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe as you do and in basically the same terms, but, having had forms of this discussion for much of my life, I've encountered a counterargument that I thought I'd bring up as a devil's advocate: > the way computers actually work, with functions and parameters instead of icons and settings menus Isn't "the way computers actually work" at a fundamental level about electrical engineering, or at least about machine…

I got a ton of upvotes on this, but nobody has replied to it! I wonder how many people who upvoted me noticed that I claimed to be expressing an argument against my own opinion. :-)

I noticed, but I'm sort of mystified about why you wouldn't agree with that opinion. Clearly the command line is an order of magnitude more abstract than practical electrical engineering.

We need different people to understand different layers, and as long as there are enough people paying attention to each layer, there's no problem.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#165

Post by vacri »

mythz wrote: post #96
jshevek wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, it has the feeling of being more of a PR stunt than a sincere effort to help education. Plus, its an opportunity to build brand allegiance at a young age. I would rather Apple donate an equal amount of money to any of those entities out there which help to bring technology to the youth.

I don't see this as a PR stunt at all, this goes to one of Apple's core values. Apple's very good at marketing, if this were a PR stunt they would have large brand building ads and little substance, whereas this initiative requires a lot of resources, logistics and investments to run and are offering it for free. Since Tim took over Apple's been doing a lot more towards "We want to leave the world better than we foun…

Going after the educational market is an ancient tactic of Apple's. If you get people using your product in schools, then when they get out into the real world and purchase their own $thing, they'll likely choose the one they're familiar with. Educational discounts for tech companies aren't really altruism - they're usually considered a loss-leader.

This happens in other arenas as well - for example, part of the reason why the religious right is so strong in the US at the moment is due to a lot of grass-roots work done in the 80s and 90s on school boards; playing the long game with the next generation. It's a tactic that was openly acknowledged in the 80s, and it's paid off for them.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#166

Post by vacri »

MBCook wrote: post #132
draw_down wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't really call it philanthropic. Tech companies do this sort of stuff because of labor costs.

What do you mean because of labor costs? Do you think they're going to hire 12 year olds? If anything this will increase labor costs because now they need Geniuses to cover these classes (as well as costs for possible damage to the iPads used) in addition to normal Apple store staffing.

If they're playing the long game, then the more people that are interested in developing, the lower their wage bill will be down the track. I'm not sure if that's what the GP is talking about, but it's one way this could help.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#167

Post by tamana »

Chathamization wrote: post #82
plg wrote: post #32

I took my kid to one of these last year. It was fairly useless. They drag around little action-icons into a list to make an animated character move around and do stuff. My 11-year-old was bored stiff. Edit: PS the Apple Store employee who ran this thing (he was a very nice guy) admitted he had zero coding experience himself

That's how the Harvard CS50 course starts (using Scratch).

The Harvard CS50 course was redesigned because the previous version appealed to much to condescending people like GP who had no patience for classes that teach beginners.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#168

Post by tamana »

xyience wrote: post #85
jshevek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, given the level of competence of the staff at Apple stores, it seems unlikely there could be a worthwhile coding camp at that venue. Apple would need to bring in some much higher caliber people.

It'd be nice if they made an area available for random mall-goers who are also software engineers to come voluntarily hang out and instruct / help out random kids or teens that stop by, with potential for networking or further tutoring services for those really interested or who want to do something more interesting. Unfortunately I bet if a lot of us just camped out unofficially for a couple hours we'd be branded as…

These aces are called schools and community centers and they welcome volunteers

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#169

Post by tamana »

gdubs wrote: post #136
gshulegaard wrote: post #63

I am pretty surprised by the general lack luster comments bordering on negativity here. Personally, I think it is great to see a major retailer take even a misguided stab at improving child tech education which has quickly fallen behind demand (in America). Do I think the approach is more than a little bit wrong? Sure, GUI programming a non-useful task wouldn't be my choice. Would I prefer a more robust longer-term p…

I'm reading "Bringing up Bébé" – a book written by an American woman who raises her child in Paris. When they take their toddler girl to swim lessons, everyone is in the pool swimming around together. Occasionally the instructor swims up to them and says, "hello". Eventually, on the third class she finally says, "Excuse me, but when are you going to actually, you know, teach my kid to swim?". The instructor smiles an…

I had a swim class like that in USA. The French exceptionalism is a tacky gimmick to hang a book off of.

Re: Apple launches coding camps for kids in its retail stores

#170

Post by tamana »

jshevek wrote: post #70
gshulegaard wrote: post #63

I am pretty surprised by the general lack luster comments bordering on negativity here. Personally, I think it is great to see a major retailer take even a misguided stab at improving child tech education which has quickly fallen behind demand (in America). Do I think the approach is more than a little bit wrong? Sure, GUI programming a non-useful task wouldn't be my choice. Would I prefer a more robust longer-term p…

For me, it has the feeling of being more of a PR stunt than a sincere effort to help education. Plus, its an opportunity to build brand allegiance at a young age. I would rather Apple donate an equal amount of money to any of those entities out there which help to bring technology to the youth.

Do you know what "those entities" do? They teach Scratch just like Apple's program.
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