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Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#161

Post by danieltillett »

eru wrote: post #106
gizmo686 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, plants do not sequester much CO2 long term. Instead, the CO2 gets released back to the atmosphere as plants die off.

Unless you bury the plants. That's what happened to create coal and oil. The problem of too much CO2 in the atmosphere will solve itself in a few thousand years: the ocean currents will sequester lots of carbon in the depths of the sea. Of course, people alive today and their children and grand-children don't want to wait for so long.

I think the time frames for returning to pre-human levels is longer than a few thousand years [1, 2].

1. http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/03/how-lo...

2. http://www.nature.com/climate/2008/0812/full/climate.2008.12...

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#162

Post by dredmorbius »

brc wrote: post #155
MikeHolman wrote: post #72

I've been having a bit of an existential crisis about this recently. Is sustainability even possible anymore? We are obviously living beyond the capacity of the earth to cope right now. But is it even possible to sustain this many people (at current standards of living with foreseeable technology)?

I would suggest you stop worrying and get on with your biological imperative to reproduce your dna, only in slightly variated pattern to ensure parasites and viruses are kept guessing. Also know that people have been grappling with this question for centuries and every doomsday prediction has turned out to be wrong. So there is cause for optimism.

Every previous civilisation met its doomsday.

They weren't, however, globe-spanning comprehensive complex and ultimately fragile systems.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#163

Post by danieltillett »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #57
Retric wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never. The issue with climate change is it's not going to harm wealthy people, so it's not a problem for them. In other words bad shit might happen to 75% of the worlds population, but so what. During the Irish potato famine, Ireland exported food. Think about that for a little bit. Throughout the entire period of the Famine, Ireland was exporting enormous quantities of food. Cormac O'Grada points out that, in Irelan…

Climate change is already harming wealthy people in the UK who bought nice houses on flood plains or near the Thames. It's no longer possible to buy insurance in some areas - the insurance companies are ahead of the game on modelling climate change impacts - and many people are trying to move away from those areas, with varying degrees of success. Parts of the country are literally becoming uninhabitable. I had to dr…

It is amazing that the people making money from burning carbon are denying anything is going on while the companies that have to take on the risk won't insure against it. I have always wondered if we could just merge Exxon and AIG and let them fight it out internally.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#164

Post by throw12241 »

brc wrote: post #156
lprubin wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having kids may be one of the biggest forms of environmental activism.

Your whole reason for being, the thing that gets you out of bed and searching for food, is your in-built desire to recreate and nurture life. Intentionally rejecting that is a massive commitment to make, given the very long term consequences of it. In short, go have some kids, bring them up well and enjoy the benefits. Our biology is tribe-based and ingrained, so it's smart to work with that and be part of a tribe. W…

That seems a bit of a stretch... There's no inbuilt point to life, but people try desperately to find one because evolution gave us some kind of drive for meaning, whatever that is. Don't mistake reproduction for some kind of divine purpose, it just is.

Don't mistake anything for purpose. Purpose is a concept central to goal directed planning, but it is a construct of the mind. Since humans give purpose to things, humans cannot be assigned a purpose except as a way to use them for some other means.

You are right though -- finding cuties gets me out of bed, but believe me I'm using birth control.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#165

Post by rosser »

Tushon wrote: post #133
rosser wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get ready to enjoy eating things made from jellyfish. Like, a lot of them.

I would venture that seaweed or algae is more likely.

I specifically cite jellyfish, because they're one of the few creatures that will thrive in the increasingly acidic oceans. As so many other species — including those we currently enjoy eating to the brink of extinction — die off, jellyfish will abound.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#166

Post by dwaltrip »

brc wrote: post #158
cconroy wrote: post #85

Forgive my ignorance on this issue but Earth has various feedback mechanisms that forestalls CO2: getting absorbed back into rocks and consumption by flora. Is comparing CO2 levels to 4 mya disingenuous because that is just one variable we are isolating? Are we sure that rising CO2 is producing these effects attributed to climate change and not some complicated combination of factors that is evidenced by Earth histor…

No, you're not ignorant. Yes, if the earth were an unstable system it would have destabilised in the past. Yes, it is a combination of factors poorly understood, like the work only now coming out of CERN. Yes, the ROI of the various treaties and tax plans are beyond negative. Yes, this type of comment is verboten.

Care to show us your notes about the ROIs of the various treaties and tax plans?

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#167

Post by hyperpallium »

MikeHolman wrote: post #72

I've been having a bit of an existential crisis about this recently. Is sustainability even possible anymore? We are obviously living beyond the capacity of the earth to cope right now. But is it even possible to sustain this many people (at current standards of living with foreseeable technology)?

Earth can cope, we mightn't.

Nature looks very harmonious to us, but we only see the sustainable species (alive now, and very few are fossilised and found). Many many species must have evolved that created conditions unfavourable to themselves - we only see the ones that didn't. (Organisms have an effect on their environment, favourable, unfavourable or neutral). Consider a plant that encourages swampy conditions. If it thrives in those conditions, great. If it doesn't, it will evolve itself away.

There's speculation that Earth's oxygen atmosphere destroyed the life that created it. Though most changes and extinctions are local.

Intelligence is such a dramatic, effectful evolution, it may take several iterations before a sustainable version arises (if possible). Perhaps this has happened on Earth already.

In the Drake equation, L is very low (how long technological civilizations usually last).

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#168

Post by nikdaheratik »

refurb wrote: post #154
eloff wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my way of thinking about it too. At any rate getting nearly 200 independent nation states to agree on anything when they all individually benefit by flouting the rules - that's madness. We'll burn oil and coal and gas until it doesn't make economic sense. I very much doubt politics will change the outcome. Technology will hopefully save us from ourselves on that front. A bigger problem is positive feedback loo…

A bigger problem is positive feedback loops. Historically we've had much more CO2 in the atmosphere than we do now. Why didn't the methane bubble up and kill everything then?

The methane was primarily caused by decaying biomass falling to the ocean floor. It didn't exist at the time the CO2 levels were higher.

Re: Antarctic CO2 Hit 400 PPM for First Time in 4M Years

#169

Post by dang »

wolfram74 wrote: post #9

No no, that just won't do. Math and modeling doesn't allow us to draw conclusions about things we can't directly observe. Someone had to be there and directly count the co2 molecules with their own eyes or it doesn't count as evidence.

Please don't.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11919106 and marked it off-topic.

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