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Facebook admits rogue employees may have shown bias against conservatives

washingtontimes.com

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Re: Facebook admits rogue employees may have shown bias against conservatives

#161

Post by chimeracoder »

ChrisArgyle wrote: post #154
chimeracoder wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Facebook denies systematic bias but admits their current process allows bad actors to apply bias and takes remediating steps" If their system allows bad actors to apply bias, that's literally a systematic bias. Unless they're claiming all of their 'bad actors' are symmetrically distributed along every relevant axis[0], that's the same thing as saying that there is a systematic bias. There is no reason to believe t…

I took "systematic bias" to have similar meaning to "systematic error" meaning that there is a constant shift on every data point. Admitting the possibility of bias is very different than admitting bias in every single trending content decision.

> Admitting the possibility of bias is very different than admitting bias in every single trending content decision.

They don't have to admit bias in every content decision. They have to admit systematic bias in content decisions in the aggregate, which does not necessarily imply bias in every content decision.

While it is technically, theoretically possible that their system is open to the introduction of these biases but does not actually exhibit those biases in the aggregate, it is astoundingly unlikely.

Re: Facebook admits rogue employees may have shown bias against conservatives

#162

Post by sremani »

hackuser wrote: post #98
sremani wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shall we talk about WaPo and Bezo's beef with Trump?

I thought Bezos overstepped the bounds of a newspaper owner, though Trump did attack his publication. But what does that prove or disprove about the comments above? The Washington Post wasn't mentioned.

That's exactly the point, WaPo is actually leading the lynch mob against Trump, NYT's efforts look pale. There was time during Bush presidency when WaPo could have been centrist-ish. Even before Bezos stepped in to it took a left turn and after Bezos (a guy known for his Union busting tactics - well anti-union formation tactics), it became even more Leftist (the Corporate version).

You did not mention WaPo and NYT in liberal publications, and if you do not consider them liberal, then your politics are pretty hard core Leftist.

Re: Facebook admits rogue employees may have shown bias against conservatives

#163

Post by mwfunk »

chipotle2 wrote: post #131
kbenson wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's an example of a less biased news source, and why do you think it's less biased?

Fox News is less biased than NPR. You joshing us, son???

You're bringing a butter knife to a nuclear war. If you're going to make that claim you need something a hell of a lot more than "you joshing us, son???". :) It's not like this isn't an area that's been investigated to death in media studies 10x over for the past decade+. The data is out there, no need to take anyone's word on it.

Re: Facebook admits rogue employees may have shown bias against conservatives

#164

Post by vkou »

talmand wrote: post #124
vkou wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is manufactured outrage. As mentioned by abiox, in a free country, every source of news is free to lie and distort things as much as it feels like. Facebook having an anti-conservative slant (true or not) is about as newsworthy as Fox News having an anti-reason slant. For some reason, though, there aren't too many conservative senators wringing their hands and calling for an investigation into the latter.

Actually, courts have established that the first amendment does not necessarily allow anyone to lie and distort things as much as they wish. There are limitations. It's just that some people are better than others at skirting along that line.

Only in a very few select contexts.

1. When you have a fiduciary duty. 2. When you are on a witness stand. 3. When you are speaking to a federal agent. 4. When you are committing fraud. (See #1) 5. ???

None of these are relevant to mass media.

Re: Facebook admits rogue employees may have shown bias against conservatives

#165

Post by wwweston »

redthrowaway wrote: post #90
hackuser wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pervasive liberal bias in the MSM The biggest cable news channel, the most popular newspaper (I think WSJ leads; EDIT: and certainly it dominates the business world), and almost all talk radio are highly conservative. They try to paint themselves as underdogs, but it's a little silly.

Yes, the big ones are conservative, because every other one is liberal. Conservatives flock to places like Fox and WSJ because they're a refuge from the liberal bias that pervades the rest of the media. If you're a liberal and you want to watch news that doesn't offend you, you can choose from any of the major networks save Fox. If you're a conservative and want the same, you're stuck with Fox.

> Yes, the big ones are conservative, because every other one is liberal.

How would one measure this? How would one know if what they're detecting is not an opposing bias, but a lack of reinforcement of one's personal bias?

> Conservatives flock to places like Fox and WSJ because they're a refuge from the liberal bias that pervades the rest of the media

That's the story, anyway.

Re: Facebook admits rogue employees may have shown bias against conservatives

#166

Post by gnaritas »

mason240 wrote: post #158
gnaritas wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook is a delivery channel. They do not produce editorial content so they are not allowed to have bias That's simply not true; they're allowed to do anything they want.

Literally no one is suggesting otherwise.

You are literally incorrect as I literally quoted someone suggesting otherwise.

Re: Facebook admits rogue employees may have shown bias against conservatives

#167

Post by VLM »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #6
abhi3 wrote: post #4

It is hard for me to believe that one employee could show this kind of bias for this long without being noticed. It had to be more systematic and widespread. But good to see FB admitting it and taking corrective action.

It's more likely that their "liberal bias" reflected the general culture at FB and therefore seemed normal to most people.

Note that there's no need for a conspiracy or even a bias. Or even an official stated policy.

FB is ground zero for hyper holiness signalling spiral, extroverted, somewhat narcissistic, workforce automation software for the middle school girl social experience of shunning and friending and whatnot. Its has little relation to the real world, yet strangely reflects it, much like an augmented reality game like Ingress. It would be highly surprising if the tiny fraction of the population that are "whales" in terms of unusually heavy participation in such a weird activity are of a political outlook remotely similar to that of the general population.

Its like a shocking expose of the really large amount of praying going on in churches. It doesn't require a conspiracy or a mysterious pro-prayer bias. All you need for non-typical beliefs and behavior is a weird filter that keeps out most of the general population plus self selection bias and you're off to the races.

Theres probably a more general theory that the more wall clock time is spent by participants in a subculture, the less likely the subculture's values will align with, or even make sense when compared to, the main culture. Groupthink conquerors all.

Re: Facebook admits rogue employees may have shown bias against conservatives

#168

Post by tremon »

CM30 wrote: post #156
sgeisenh wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of an American, the American MSM has a liberal bias. From the perspective of a citizen from most other first-world countries, the American MSM has a hardcore conservative bias.

From the perspective of this non American, the America mainstream media seems to have more of a 'pro corporation/pro establishment' bias than anything else. Why else would it be so eager to criticise both Trump and Sanders?

A "pro establishment bias" is a conservative bias.

Re: Facebook admits rogue employees may have shown bias against conservatives

#170

Post by thisargisARGH23 »

rhino369 wrote: post #143
thisargisARGH23 wrote: post #17

"But with nearly two-thirds of Facebook users saying they get at least some of their news from the online platform, conservatives said any chance of bias could skew political conversations." I really don't understand this whole situation? How is this happening? If the argument is "We don't like how you're skewing news about our kind", how is this not seen as pure hypocrisy and laughed out of the room? Can you imagine…

A key difference between Fox News and Facebook is that Fox commentators are pretty much advertising their bias. Bill Oreilly is clearly stating his personal opinions. Facebook is stating it's politically neutral but it wasn't. Another thing to considers is that Facebook is a monopoly in the social networking business. There are probably half a dozen news networks on a cable plan, plus nearly infinitely online news ou…

Their tagline is "Fair and Balanced". In reality they're nothing of the sort.

Here is a link describing how Trending topics works:

https://www.facebook.com/help/737806312958641

Where does it state Trending topics is a neutral source for unbiased news? They admit readily that an algorithm does much of the work, but that it also relies on human intervention. And the Valley, including Zuckerberg, have worn their "liberal" ideals all over their sleeves via their actions.

They sold people on a tagline, while never really being up front. Need I again quote Zuckerberg's infamous opinion on people trusting him? Let's not forget his shenanigans in India with "free" but hobbled internet.

They're as open about how things really work as Fox. Unless Fox is suddenly inviting people into their meetings where editorial directives are discussed. They put some friendly language on there, making a vague claim, then feed people bullshit.

The mental gymnastics people go through by blindly accepting such shallow rhetoric like "Fair and Balanced" or "We're neutral" without really verifying is bizarre.

Facebook has competition in the form of dozens of news aggregators; Apple, Google, Microsoft, Pocket... This is about one feature of Facebook. Not the entire enchilada.

My frustration is not with Facebook lacking competition. It's the aforementioned obtuse behavior of the populace at large, the mind-boggling mental gymnastics being employed, in thinking that these large, opaque corporate machines are focusing on the end user. The phrase "if it's a free service, you're the product, not the customer" comes to mind. Facebook sells eyeballs to others. They have little interest in being neutral.

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