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We Only Hire the Best

m.signalvnoise.com

161–170 of 209 posts

Re: We Only Hire the Best

#161
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And almost always these places pay their conference-calling-bullshitters top dollar. But it's like the apocalypse if you try to get more money for the people that actually do things.

The thing about salespeople is that you can objectively determine their value over any given time period. That's how they should be paid: a very small base salary that wouldn't cover their mortgage, coupled with a clear and unambiguous bonus structure that gives them a reasonable amount of money when they hit the targets that make the company profitable. Salespeople "actually do things". The problems come when you ma…

For the sake of lucidity, I wasn't thinking of excluding (most) sales roles from "people that do things" - but as an engineer, you should still be looking for "basic" parity in remuneration between the top sales and the top engineers (even if it's structured differently.). If the two figures are completely untethered from each other, then it's a good sign the place either doesn't value business acumen (if engineers are paid highly and there are not good incentives for sales) or technical systems (if salespeople are all driving a Lexus' and they are stiffing developers). Both are deadly. I was merely pointing out that the latter fallacy tends to be indicated in mock conversation described.

Re: We Only Hire the Best

#162
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The counter-point is that without something to sell, the sales people wouldn't make any money. > They don't make the company any money, they're middle-men. The value comes from the product. It is supposed to be a symbiotic relationship. Sales staff can't make money if they have nothing to sell, and engineers can't build product if they have no customers. The sales staff is just as critical as the product developmen…

This $5 Billion Software Company Has No Sales Staff Atlassian sold $320 million worth of business software last year without a single sales employee. Everyone else in the industry noticed. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-18/this-5-bil...

Good for them. How many other companies have tried the same thing and failed?

Re: We Only Hire the Best

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "No assholes" rule should really be the #1 rule when hiring. I've heard a lot of complaints from friends and family in the tech industry over the years, as I've had my own issues. While details vary, it always comes down to the acting up of one obvious asshole or another. It infects the whole team/company/project. In the long run, a team of average but positively motivated people more often than not beats a team…

So there's no interest at all in lighting up the assholes? Pity; its great sport. What, you think you'll be fired?

The biggest ones tend to reek real bad and most of the time all you have is a matchstick to light them up. Most of them big'uns come from the "network above".

Re: We Only Hire the Best

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Money is the measure of how valuable my work is to you. Are you saying you don't value my work as much as your competitors do?"

No, it's a piece. Vacation days, for example.

A place that says "We want people who are motivated by more than just money" isn't going to be the place that is going to take kindly to someone using up their (probably meager) amount of vacation each year.

Re: We Only Hire the Best

#165
post #11

Corp: "We only hire the very best" Programmer: "What's the salary?" Corp: "Market average. Also, we're looking for people who aren't just motivated by money"

Yep. I called BS on Chris Dixon on this on Twitter and he blocked me. It was when he and Paul Graham were arguing that "not enough (good)engineers exist for startups, so we need to import more". I was arguing that plenty of great engineers exist, you just have to pay for it.

But.. But startups are special! They can't pay for stuff! We can't treat them like an actual business!

Re: We Only Hire the Best

#166
post #87
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did we mention the perks like our "unlimited vacation policy"?

Ha! Hubspot got thrown under the bus because of their "unlimited vacation policy" - http://nypost.com/2016/04/03/millennials-are-being-dot-conne...

I gotta say, after watching his chat at Google IO, I want to read that book now.

Re: We Only Hire the Best

#167
post #153
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sales staff are out there, talking to customers. Since no product is truly complete, they are the best source of information about what customers actually want . Too many programmers are smugly crossing their arms, saying they know what's best for customers without ever talking to them. Programmers are generally far more responsible than sales people for poor product quality.

True. But there are also many cases when sales people force the product development team to implement the most idiotic "feature", because "we think the client is ready to sign the check and this is really important to them". The bad side of commission-based compensation is that they want to close the sale, no matter how harmful (in the long term) it can be.

The only thing "idiotic" about customer-requested features, especially on high-ticket items, is when they introduce excessive technical debt. This can come in the form of code instability, disrupting development schedules, etc. Features that do more harm than good to the product and the business.

Beyond that, it's not idiotic. It's just stuff the programmers don't care about. Price you pay for getting a paycheck.

Re: We Only Hire the Best

#168
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The counter-point is that without something to sell, the sales people wouldn't make any money. > They don't make the company any money, they're middle-men. The value comes from the product. It is supposed to be a symbiotic relationship. Sales staff can't make money if they have nothing to sell, and engineers can't build product if they have no customers. The sales staff is just as critical as the product developmen…

This $5 Billion Software Company Has No Sales Staff Atlassian sold $320 million worth of business software last year without a single sales employee. Everyone else in the industry noticed. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-18/this-5-bil...

They have sales people.

They just recycle this same story every year and get tons of press for it.

Re: We Only Hire the Best

#169
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's a piece. Vacation days, for example.

A place that says "We want people who are motivated by more than just money" isn't going to be the place that is going to take kindly to someone using up their (probably meager) amount of vacation each year.

You're probably right about "read between the lines", but still, even just as a worker I'd prefer to work with people who are here for more than just collecting a paycheck.

Re: We Only Hire the Best

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I send out a test in between phone interview and face to face but it's very subjective, not really meant to weed out people who fail. The purpose of it is to create some technical talking points for the face to face interview in lieu of putting someone on the spot on the whiteboard. "I see you refactored this, but not this. Can you explain your thinking? Why did you decide this pattern fit the solution?" There can be…

> ...3 minute basic screen by the recruiter.... Exactly. The recruiter call should be primarily to gauge interest and to get some idea if the candidate has any skills and experience whatsoever. I've gotten calls from recruiters who were clearly not technical people asking fairly deep technical questions. That's an instant turn off to me.

I'm pretty sure we've all experienced this classic:

"Tech" Recruiter: "I saw that you have 7+ years of Java experience! That's great, we're looking for a senior Java dev!"

Me: "I have 7+ years of JavaScript."

"Tech" Recruiter: "Same thing, right?"

Me: ...

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