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A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#161

Post by njloof »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #99
TeMPOraL wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the oil money that's fuelling the conflict on both sides, if we cut that out of the equation I'm confident we would find it much easier to work towards peace in the Middle East. I agree, though even if the US solved its energy problems today, we (i.e. the entire Western world) need to survive the generation or two of pretty angry Middle-Easterns seeking revenge for their destroyed homes and killed families, as…

> ... even if the US solved its energy problems today ... Observe: We kinda did, as far as geopolitics are concerned anyway (environmentalist concerns may obviously differ). US net imports of oil are approaching zero, and our neighbor Canada has plenty more. Here the Financial Times reports on projections that the US will be a net exporter by 2028, and maybe 2019 if the price shoots up: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f6dc…

We'd better start being nicer to Canada then. Will we see our next President holding hands with Justin Trudeau?

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#162

Post by patrickaljord »

blfr wrote: post #43
cstross wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That explains why the Republic of South Vietnam is doing so well these days, and why Iraq and Afghanistan are beacons of hope and democracy in the middle east. (The USA does lose wars; it's just career suicide for a politician -- and deeply unpopular for a media channel -- to admit it. And nobody has actually threatened to invade the CONUS since 1941, so the cost of losing a war is much lower than for most other nati…

It's pretty clear what he meant: the US never had to surrender like Germany or Japan, or even defend on their own soil, so they can shield their operatives indefinitely.

And they didn't really lost in Vietnam, what happened in the end was that they had to pick between two alternatives: carpet bomb the place to hell and "win" or go home. That "win" would have been political suicide for the administration at the time as the majority of the US wanted to go home. In the end it was a victory of the will of the people so I'm glad they went home and I'm not even American so it's not like I care if they "lost" or not.

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#163

Post by justinwr »

kangar00 wrote: post #83
cm3 wrote: post #5

The CIA is the reason for most of the unstable regions and it's hard to understand how after messing with other places and making it worse for everybody but weapons manufacturers, they're still doing the same thing over and over. Previously it was the fight against Communism, now Islam, I wonder what it will be in 2020. Middle-east, Asia, South America, all are right to be very angry with the CIA, but turn it into a…

> CIA's policy is probably controlled by someone else, and that's where changes need to be made because I like to think they don't come up with the stuff on their own. Beyond you liking to think that, what evidence do you have that the CIA's policy is controlled by anyone other than the CIA's Deputy Director who commands internal operations, and its Director, who reports to the director of National Intelligence as we…

Thank you.

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#164

Post by patrickburke »

arca_vorago wrote: post #131
kangar00 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CIA's policy is probably controlled by someone else, and that's where changes need to be made because I like to think they don't come up with the stuff on their own. Beyond you liking to think that, what evidence do you have that the CIA's policy is controlled by anyone other than the CIA's Deputy Director who commands internal operations, and its Director, who reports to the director of National Intelligence as we…

I think you are completely wrong about this. There is plenty of evidence to indicate that "shadow groups" of varied interests that sometimes align and sometimes dont, are often pulling the strings of "public puppets". Your view, while common, (especially in the academic world where conspiracy is avoided like the plague) doesnt seem to reflect reality. The conspiratorial view of history is the correct one. Would you l…

This is about the NSA, not the CIA, but still a nice link.

"As the most recent National Security Advisor of the United States, I take my daily orders from Dr. Kissinger, filtered down through General Brent Scowcroft and Sandy Berger, who is also here. We have a chain of command in the National Security Council that exists today."

http://www.cfr.org/world/remarks-national-security-adviser-j...

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#165

Post by rorykoehler »

mrslave wrote: post #85

In the interest of some context: Mandela was a communist and a terrorist. While a "political prisoner" he was offered freedom as soon as he would publicly renounce violent protest (i.e. terrorism) and he persistently refused to do so. His second wife, Winnie, enjoyed the necklacing opponents. So nice people all round.

Meaningless labels of propaganda. Please tell me you don't really believe those terms at face value when they're used by anyone in a position of power or authority.

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#166

Post by ZenoArrow »

cm2187 wrote: post #140
ZenoArrow wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it won't be an overnight change, but it's an important step towards peace in that region. People are willing to put aside their personal differences if it benefits them economically, but at the moment those economic forces are tearing them further apart.

Even in Palestine and Israel where there is no oil?

Yes, even there, as the violence is being fueled by other countries in the region with large ties to oil. It is not the only thing that needs to change in that region (a proper Palestinian state that could control its own borders would also be a great step in the right direction), but it's something that the average person has some control over, so instead of sitting on our hands and watching the situation get worse we can take practical steps to help out, with the added bonus of helping ourselves in the process.

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#167

Post by ZenoArrow »

enoch_r wrote: post #146
ZenoArrow wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I find bizarre about 9/11 is that very few people seem to openly question why the World Trade Center was amongst the top targets that day. Perhaps if people looked a little deeper into what the WTO does it might help us make better decisions going forward. In the interest of balance, the situation on 9/11 wasn't completely the fault of the US. Saudi Arabia appears to have been the main driving force behind…

The WTO and WTCs have similar names, but are not otherwise related to each other.

TIL. Thanks.

So if it wasn't the headquarters for the WTO, what activity was taking place at the WTC?

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#168

Post by danharaj »

jdimov9 wrote: post #159
danharaj wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like an Ayn Rand soliloquy.

I've been told this a number of times. I've never read any Ayn Rand - probably should. I was, however, born and raised in communism, as were my parents, so I talk from experience.

And i suppose the people of "The Democratic Republic of North Korea" know a thing or two about democracy and republics.

There are plenty of communists who categorically reject state communism. They're called anarchists.

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#169

Post by patrickaljord »

jdimov9 wrote: post #159
danharaj wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like an Ayn Rand soliloquy.

I've been told this a number of times. I've never read any Ayn Rand - probably should. I was, however, born and raised in communism, as were my parents, so I talk from experience.

Not sure why you're being downvoted. I grew up in socialist Syria and that was pretty much it, my wife in Peru had a similar experience and so did my Russian friends. I think most Westerners are totally clueless when it comes to what communism really means and are quick to label you an Ayn Rand fanboy. I guess they will eventually find out if they keep voting for more socialism though.

Re: A former CIA spy has revealed his key role in the arrest of Nelson Mandela

#170

Post by ebbv »

The title of this link is misleading. A former CIA spy (is that even confirmed?) claimed it. That's incredibly different from the CIA actually admitting it.

Which is not to say I really doubt his claims (assuming it can be verified he was a CIA operative who was in South Africa at that time.)

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