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Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

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Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#161

Post by basch »

ubernostrum wrote: post #121
basch wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not if they charged it? wouldnt it last forever?

Don't think of Touch ID as unlocking the phone. You know how you can "sudo" and type your password (if you have an account with sudo privileges) and then for a few minutes afterward you don't have to type your password when you use sudo? Think of Touch ID like that: the passcode is still the thing that unlocks the phone, but once it's been entered you can use Touch ID for a little while, in much the same way that sud…

that is what i am asking, where is the 48 hour part. ive never left my phone untouched for 48 hours, except in a powered off state.

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#162

Post by jayd16 »

bitJericho wrote: post #48
themartorana wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a problem for me. Charge and prosecute them or let them go. Indefinite detention without a fair and speedy trial is unquestionably unconstitutional.

Well imagine a criminal is holding a piece of your property or even a person and not revealing where that is. Do you think it's reasonable to hold them for 30 days and then let them go and say "ah well I guess you can return that/them if you want cuz you did your time." A charge of contempt is still a charge.

Is it more reasonable to get a life sentence because someone thinks you know something you don't?

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#163

Post by mywittyname »

simcop2387 wrote: post #118
ihsw wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, is there anything preventing them from having you try all ten fingers?

Chance. It'll stop accepting them after 5 attempts according to other posters in this thread. Combine that with the fact you don't know if it read properly or not you really don't have good odds that you'll succeed.

Plus, I think you can use your knuckles too.

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#164

Post by CardenB »

csense wrote: post #100

I think the idea of using fingerprints, retina scans, face recognition, etc. as an access token is a fascinating instance of how culture influences technology. These things are very poor candidates for access control because you need fuzzy statistical/ML/AI/CV recognition techniques (which means you have to worry about false positives and false negatives), and it's basically impossible to re-issue credentials in case…

I think it's more about convenience than sci fi.

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#165

Post by astrodust »

jdmichal wrote: post #159
jedmeyers wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I mean, disable Touch ID before any potential situation where the phone might be seized for any reason, not after a judge had ordered you to unlock the phone with a thumbprint.

The moment you believe the phone is going to be seized by law enforcement and you act accordingly to make it more difficult or impossible to retrieve data from it, you are guilty of spoliation / tampering of evidence. This is the same set of laws that makes it illegal to shred papers before law enforcement can get to them. Locking or erasing your phone is simply the digital equivalent.

"I just turned it off since the battery wears down really quickly and I thought I might need it to make a call later."

Difficult to prove.

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#166

Post by awqrre »

csense wrote: post #100

I think the idea of using fingerprints, retina scans, face recognition, etc. as an access token is a fascinating instance of how culture influences technology. These things are very poor candidates for access control because you need fuzzy statistical/ML/AI/CV recognition techniques (which means you have to worry about false positives and false negatives), and it's basically impossible to re-issue credentials in case…

In cases where your username is not public, biometrics should not even be used as a "login name"... let alone password.

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#167

Post by bsder »

rayiner wrote: post #141
themartorana wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a problem for me. Charge and prosecute them or let them go. Indefinite detention without a fair and speedy trial is unquestionably unconstitutional.

The contempt power is in the Judiciary Act of 1789, so it's hard to say that the founding generation would have considered it unconstitutional. Moreover, what exactly would she be tried for ? Do we need a trial to establish that she has in fact continued to disobey the judge's order to unlock the phone?

Yes, we probably would need a trial in that instance.

The courts really don't get to hold someone indefinitely without charging them with something.

Contempt is generally used as a quick and dirty hack for someone disobeying the procedures of the court. Not providing a fingerprint to unlock evidence is WAY beyond that scope and probably should require a hearing and trial.

Now, she could be detained while that hearing is proceeding, but that's different that just being jailed for contempt.

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#168

Post by Phlarp »

saboot wrote: post #32

Curious, what would happen if you purposefully damage your fingerprint? Say by forcing a burn on your finger using a stove top or car cigarette lighter.

Well, that would hurt, and you would have to permanently damage the entire fingerprint-- as only a small section of the scanned print is really needed to make a match.

IANAL: but I would imagine a sour faced judge could call it contempt or maybe destruction of evidence depending on the circumstances?

Re: Judge Grants Search Warrant Forcing Woman to Unlock iPhone with Touch ID

#169

Post by DavideNL »

jedmeyers wrote: post #72
astrodust wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard more than one person say if you're going to have to surrender your phone, if there's even the risk of it, turn it off.

At the very least, use the wrong finger 5 times on the sensor and it will disable the Touch ID.

Or, 'remove' your fingerprint... (from your finger)
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