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TTIP Leaks

ttip-leaks.org

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Re: TTIP Leaks

#161

Post by vasilipupkin »

jethro_tell wrote: post #140
vasilipupkin wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to point out that German economy and by extension, regular Germans, heavily depend on exports to the US. So, reducing frictions in trade between US and Europe should make regular Germans better off not worse off. How do you suppose German economy works ?

The most likely outcome of this is that exports are sold at the price they are at now, not cheaper. The workers are paid the same as they are now, (which is the market rate). And the difference in what's normal and cost savings from TTIP will go to company bottom line. And the top officers at the company will collect a performance bonus. The unlikely scenario is that the price comes down and more units are sold and/o…

And the company and the executives pay taxes from the bottom line Thus, according to your own logic, the state, which pays social security and benefits is better off and is more fiscally sound

Re: TTIP Leaks

#162

Post by tremon »

tajen wrote: post #80
lumberjack wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'm now wondering is, can the WTO bully US and EU states in the way it can bully third world countries? What if renegade states across both sides of the Atlantic decided to disregard the treaty and the fines that will follow immediately? What will the WTO do then? Sanction them?

I need help in argumenting: What's the difference between the EU-US WTO agreements and the TTIP, apart from the former being from the XXth century. Aren't we happier and wealthier since the WTO exists? Please don't tell me about how a treaty should be voted on by the people, because I already agree about this part.

Aren't we happier and wealthier since the WTO exists?

1) If the consumption of mood-altering prescription drugs is any indicator, then indeed, we are not happier.

2) Correlation is not causation.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#163

Post by commentzorro »

jychang wrote: post #4

Here's the preview for relevant section for the TTRIP with regards to the Internet: http://www.ttip-leaks.org/agamemnon/doc4.pdf The actual preview function seems to be broken, it only opens in a tiny iframe.

Some of the documents are missing. Among them is the other documents that will be relevant to HN readers: e-commerce and the Copyright and Intellectual Property.

From the FAQ:

4. Are the documents complete?

All of the documents in possession of Greenpeace Netherlands are complete.

The documents represent a substantial part of the negotiating texts, 13 of 17 chapters believed to have reached the consolidation phase of negotiations.

Chapters believed to be in the consolidation phase, but not in possession of Greenpeace Netherlands, are those concerning __e-commerce__, financial services, rules of origin and trade remedies.

Chapters which are not yet believed to have reached the consolidation phase, also not in possession of Greenpeace Netherlands, are those covering: energy and raw materials, investment protection, __intellectual property__ rights, legal and institutional issues, subsidies, sustainable development, textiles and apparel, and other sectors.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#164

Post by brandmeyer »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #137
gech wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" should make regular Germans better off " Please define a metric that we can use to establish this.

gdp per capita growth as well as sustainable financial situation so that German state can meet its social obligations without a fiscal crisis like in Greece

I don't think GDP/capita is enough, since it is taking an average of a highly skewed distribution. We really need something closer to a median: How about inflation-adjusted median income? Or perhaps inflation-adjusted median income after housing.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#165

Post by btreecat »

Analemma_ wrote: post #160
kspaans wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 4. The conversations happen in secret. Not commenting on any other aspects of TTIP, but they happen in secret for a reason.[0][1][2] Most trade negotiations are secret too, and if the whole process was public there would be too much bikeshedding and pressure on the negotiators. EDIT: forgot to include a TL;DR summary of why they are secret. Fixed NPR link 0 - http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/06/26/417851577/e…

> and if the whole process was public there would be too much bikeshedding and pressure on the negotiators. That's a feature, not a bug. Whence this argument that trade negotiations are somehow different from every single other aspect of good governance? For all other mechanisms of government, everyone agrees that transparency is a vital mechanism for preventing corruption, and that whatever inefficiencies it introdu…

Literally having the exact same conversion on reddit. You are right, it is a feature not a bug.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#166

Post by scalio »

JPKab wrote: post #102
tommyman wrote: post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

"So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on how to screw over Europe." Let me change this for you to something more accurate: So this is really lots of big multinational corporations negotiating with themselves on how to screw over working people throughout the world. When you start tuning this into "US companies screwing over Europe", you play right into their hands. As if there aren't…

In the same vein, it seems to me that TTP and TTIP are one thing just sliced up geographically to make it appear less big, less of a one-stop solution for screwing the world. When in reality, these two "agreements" are giving western (though mostly american) companies far more power than they could possibly handle sensibly, seeing as they are already fucking up left and right in terms of, dunno, human rights, maybe (or just some basic decency).

Re: TTIP Leaks

#167

Post by gumby »

tacos wrote: post #159
soperj wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, where has it made life possible where it was not? Most places have been inhabited for eons, or settled before the invention of the internal combustion engine.

Honestly, please report back with a plan that gets the USA from 30 million people in 1860 to 300+ million people today without using the internal combustion engine.

or freed (cumulatively) billions from backbreaking labor.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#168

Post by maccard »

cookiecaper wrote: post #153
Grishnakh wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe they'd prefer to make this option readily available to you so that you'll use these pharmaceuticals which have relatively minor side-effects, rather than you "self medicating" with alcohol or illegal narcotics as people generally did in the past (and still do today). You tell me, which is better for someone under a lot of stress in life: should they take a Xanax one or two times a day, or should they drink t…

What about neither? There are people who value sobriety.

That option is available too.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#169

Post by imtringued »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #50
tommyman wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly cannot tell if that is serious, a joke or some kind of irony. I'm not american so really not my business however narcissists do not make good social leaders. They make really terrible & dangerous social leaders.

I am and I'm disgusted that the only two people we deem worthy of putting to the forefront for our forthcoming election are Trump and Clinton. Prepare for the Bill of Rights to be eroded further when either of these two idiots are elected.

Hey that's how the voting system to elect a president is supposed to work. More than two "real" candidates ends up wasting votes. If we have two liberal and one conservative president and the a voting split like this: 1. liberal 25%, 2. liberal %35 and conservative 40%

The conservative will win even though 60% voted liberal. You don't have this problem if there are only two choices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

Re: TTIP Leaks

#170

Post by [deleted] »

tacos wrote: post #159
soperj wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, where has it made life possible where it was not? Most places have been inhabited for eons, or settled before the invention of the internal combustion engine.

Honestly, please report back with a plan that gets the USA from 30 million people in 1860 to 300+ million people today without using the internal combustion engine.

[deleted]
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