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Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

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Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#161

Post by kbenzle »

echelon wrote: post #151
stegosaurus wrote: post #141

I find the vitriol towards Bitcoin kind of odd. If I posted an article about Linux 4.1 or something, I wouldn't expect to see comments saying 'meanwhile, I used Windows yesterday, and played GTA5, and it was good'. What gives? Are there forums in which people have this sort of reaction to, I dunno, HTML5? From some of the posts here you would think that it's IED control software.

I have no stake or interest in Bitcoin, and I wrote it off some years ago. I find it kind of annoying when there are stories about it or altcoins in my news feed (in lieu of other things). It's noise in my signal. This is just my own personal feeling; I wouldn't go as far as to describe my feeling towards Bitcoin as hate. I can't explain the feelings or motivations of those who actively detract from the technology. I…

I saw Bitcoin as another Second Life, great for smart young programmers to have a new sandbox to play in, but not actually useful for working adults. I was similarly "annoyed" by all the Second Life media hype happening after I had written it off.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#162

Post by stegosaurus »

wyldfire wrote: post #152
stegosaurus wrote: post #141

I find the vitriol towards Bitcoin kind of odd. If I posted an article about Linux 4.1 or something, I wouldn't expect to see comments saying 'meanwhile, I used Windows yesterday, and played GTA5, and it was good'. What gives? Are there forums in which people have this sort of reaction to, I dunno, HTML5? From some of the posts here you would think that it's IED control software.

It's really polarizing because it forces us to question what we think of as currency. Is it sufficient for it to be scarce, durable, verifyable and fungible or should it have some independent utility or backing? Some of the vitriol is backlash against the zealots who feel that Bitcoin can/should enable elements of anarchy.

I think that's only true if you follow this idea that Bitcoin is going to take over the world, become a global reserve currency, we should hold 100% net worth in it, whatever.

Regardless of correctness, that sort of attitude feels really stressful to me (to think about the ultimate endgame of anything that ever happens under some 'ideal' circumstances). I don't think it's healthy.

For the time being, we have a cool technology that lets me use asymmetric crypto to send people a tenner on the other side of the world. If it all fails or drops massively in value tomorrow, I lose the small amount I have in my wallet.

I'm sure some cypherpunks figured that GPG meant we would all plug ourselves into the wall and be anonymous and stateless and stuff. That probably won't happen, but does it make GPG useless, worthy of ranting about?

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#163

Post by lsadam0 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #134
lsadam0 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so? Bitcoin is an accepted payment method. Why should you care how exactly they handle processing of it? The only measure of success here is how much people do or do not use it. Are you honestly trying to argue against their acceptance by nitpicking the details of the backend implementation? 99.9% of people don't care.

>>The only measure of success here is how much people do or do not use it. No, that's your only measure of success. In order for Bitcoin to succeed as a viable payment platform, businesses also need to adopt it wholly, which means actually conducting business in Bitcoin rather than converting it to a "real" currency as soon as possible. Basically, if they are treating it as hot potato, that means they see it as too u…

If I sell a good or service to a resident of China, in CHY, and then convert CHY to USD....the CHY has failed?

I don't understand the need to require a business to hold the bitcoin in order to consider bitcoin a "success". In this scenario bitcoin has succeeded as being a cheap method of transferring value.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#164

Post by deepnet »

richardwhiuk wrote: post #10
bhaak wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some examples for viable alternatives?

Normal currency which is both less centralized and easier to use.

'Normal' currency has severe problems which are important current issues for many and Bitcoin solves:

[1], Prevention of access - e.g. Nationwide Bank unserved queues & capped withdrawl in the UK on the days sub-prime hit is often the case in recession or bank runs.

[2], Censorship of payee - e.g. the inability to donate to Wikileaks by any means except Bitcoin when 'collatoral damage' incited US Senators to successfully pressure payment processors worldwide.

[3], Censorship of product: cash allows monetary civil disobedience like purchasing medical cannabis under prohibition.

The idea that you can be prevented spending your money makes money fallible (& as [1] just when you need it most).

If money has more power than ones vote this is wholly undemocratic.

Under Capitalism markets are unfree without freedom to spend one's wealth.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#165

Post by madeofpalk »

coldtea wrote: post #80
Cyph0n wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but you're looking at Bitcoin from a narrow viewpoint. There are in fact people who actually need Bitcoin in their day-to-day. My home country Tunisia for example has very strict currency controls in place, which means that it is impossible to purchase any goods from outside the country or even transfer money overseas. The government now provides rechargeable card with a 1000 TND (~500 USD) limit that can…

> I'm sorry, but you're looking at Bitcoin from a narrow viewpoint. There are in fact people who actually need Bitcoin in their day-to-day. Well, perhaps, but (a) these people are a very small amount compared to "first world" bitcoin champions (b) they would be better off pushing for actual policy change regarding their problems, instead of using a technological workaround who (depending on the whims of those in powe…

Also, the question was about why does HN hate Bitcoin so much. I would say the reasons stated cover that pretty well

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#166

Post by Cyph0n »

ifdefdebug wrote: post #79
Cyph0n wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but you're looking at Bitcoin from a narrow viewpoint. There are in fact people who actually need Bitcoin in their day-to-day. My home country Tunisia for example has very strict currency controls in place, which means that it is impossible to purchase any goods from outside the country or even transfer money overseas. The government now provides rechargeable card with a 1000 TND (~500 USD) limit that can…

> Bitcoin provides a quick and easy way to circumvent that Is that reality as of today, or is that a hope for the future?

No, but the potential is there, and it's already been done in other countries such as South Africa. The biggest hurdle I think is that Bitcoin is essentially unknown in Tunisia. I'm actually planning on building something but I don't have the entire system fleshed out.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#167

Post by MLR »

krisdol wrote: post #33
Grue3 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about refunds? With Paypal you know you're getting the same amount back, in the same currency, as if you haven't bought anything at all. Given the fluctuating nature of Bitcoin, surely that's not possible?

Can you ever take money out of steam?

You buy items from the marketplace (normally keys) and then sell them on a third party site or arrange a deal with a private buyer, I think it normally nets you around 70-80% of the original amount but I'm not up to date with it.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#168

Post by madeofpalk »

vesinisa wrote: post #112
mbmott wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A $100 cellphone isn't a decentralized peer to peer network. You are comparing apples to nose-hairs. Bitcoin will scale in the same way the internet scaled... slowly and then suddenly.

For me the largest put off with Bitcoin is the community. They seem to be very intolerant of criticism, to the appearance of a cult or ideology.[1] The problem lies in that unlike most open source projects, a sizeable portion of the community stands to make huge profits, giving rise to a permanent conflict of interest. Time and time again, the financial interest of the early adopters continue to stifle actual develop…

Ohhhhh yes. Not only are there those with financial interests that are terrible community members, there appears to be quite a lot of ideological, over enthusiastic fanboys who ruin it.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#169

Post by bhaak »

richardwhiuk wrote: post #10
bhaak wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some examples for viable alternatives?

Normal currency which is both less centralized and easier to use.

"Easier is to use" is dependent on how you are going to use the currency.

Using cash locally when buying/selling stuff in person is in most cases superior to all other ways of using money.

OTOH, sending cash abroad is risky and problematic. SEPA and similar agreements exists but you still have to wait at least a day until the money arrives.

For a worldwide available paying network, bitcoin is not that unattractive. It's not the best option for all possible use cases, but what other paying option is?

I think the centralization problem is not as problematic as it may seem. It all depends on how much the miners are going to use their centralization power. But you have the same problem with central banks. Maybe even more because the bitcoin miners have something to lose if they act unreasonable.

Re: Steam now accepts Bitcoin for purchases

#170

Post by dmihal »

kbenzle wrote: post #161
echelon wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no stake or interest in Bitcoin, and I wrote it off some years ago. I find it kind of annoying when there are stories about it or altcoins in my news feed (in lieu of other things). It's noise in my signal. This is just my own personal feeling; I wouldn't go as far as to describe my feeling towards Bitcoin as hate. I can't explain the feelings or motivations of those who actively detract from the technology. I…

I saw Bitcoin as another Second Life, great for smart young programmers to have a new sandbox to play in, but not actually useful for working adults. I was similarly "annoyed" by all the Second Life media hype happening after I had written it off.

The difference is that Bitcoin/Blockchain technology really is a groundbreaking invention from a computer science perspective.

Bitcoin may or may not succeed, but something can't be un-invented.

Furthermore, it's interesting to see companies like Steam, and even Wall Street players, embracing this new technology.

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