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Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

theatlantic.com

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Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#161

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Klathmon wrote: post #76
buserror wrote: post #46

And what's wrong exactly if the name appeals to every 5 years old in the country? I think /that/ is inspirational -- how better to get kids interested in the science than having them following that boat adventures over the oceans? I think refusing that name would be not just be 'anti democratic' -- it's just be very un-british, because as a foreigner, that's /exactly/ what I'd expect the british to come up with as a…

Seriously! I can't believe that the boat probably won't be named Boaty McBoatface! My nephew would have wanted to learn about it, it would have been something I could keep up to date a bit on what it's doing and he'd love to hear about it. Hell I can't believe the people on the project didn't go 100% for it right away, giving the boat a fun paint-job and maybe even doing something like working with a children's book…

The name already caused it to be mentioned in my kid's school, they found it humourous.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#162

Post by PedroBatista »

percept wrote: post #144
red_admiral wrote: post #143

There's two things we British excel at, silliness and pedantry. So it's no suprise that the best objection I've heard to the name so far is that it's stupid because the vessel is clearly a SHIP, not a BOAT.

Shippy Shippington.

Ship Shipperson

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#163

Post by gaur »

narag wrote: post #89
gpvos wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia, several Spanish ships have been named after him.

Has been. Try it now and see what happens.

Among other things, I guess those of us who don't know every piece of trivia about Spanish culture would get an explanation of what exactly is unsavory about this Blas de Lezo person.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#164

Post by hartpuff »

aninhumer wrote: post #133
hartpuff wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it just $300 million scientific research vessels that should be given deliberately stupid names (that even the originator disowns), or everything?

What? I said objecting to the name is childish. That doesn't mean I think everything should have whimsical names, and I really don't know how you interpreted that from what I said?

Did I say you said everything should have whimsical names? I asked if that is what you thought. Can't you tell the difference?

So what's your presumably non-childish objection to other things being given "whimsical" names?

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#165

Post by mseebach »

jernfrost wrote: post #22

I don't agree with a lot of the conclusions of this article. E.g. they propose that voting "probably" works the same way in all other countries as the US. There are plenty of objections to be made against that. E.g. 1) the US being a two party state means that getting representatives which represents the great variety of voter opinions is exceedingly difficult. 2) US elections are so dominated by advertisement, expen…

I don't really agree with the article either, but for different reasons.

Voting is to democracy as is telescopes is to astronomy.

Democracy is about the people being in charge, of the government existing for the benefit of the people (as opposed to a dictator/absolute monarch/aristocracy) on the broadest possible stretches. It's about replacing the people in charge peacefully every few years. It's not about every decision being made at every level of government always being in line with what a majority might vote -- and it's emphatically not about online votes for silly things. It's an abomination to suggest such votes have anything to do with democracy (or, if you're so minded, an elaborate tactic for the power cabal to create the illusion of people being in power, but that theory is rather diminished by the power cabal not following the decision).

Democracy is worst form of government, except for all other others. It's not perfect, and it doesn't hold the seeds of perfection. It's at best a decent way of preventing a strong man and his cronies from grabbing too much power too fast -- it's not even a guarantee against that happening.

However, the unexpected strong performances of Trump and Sanders in the US primaries is for all its weirdness a symptom of the system working, however imperfectly: It's a huge vote of non-confidence in "the system" and the perception that it has been captured by some vaguely defined instance of not-the-people (Sanders: Wall Street; Trump: Who the hell knows? Mexicans?) and that (however crudely) something should be done about it.

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#166

Post by mcguire »

This article is troubling.

It seems to be an attack on the fundamentals of modern governments, that the legitimacy of the government follows from the will of those governed. Because those governed can't be bothered.

So, what's your next suggestion, then?

Personally, as a random human and as a scientist, I have no problem with Boaty McBoatface, although I know a lot of the stuffier set who would regard it as ridiculous and insulting, and might reflect those feelings on the work done aboard the ship. (I also feel those people should be vetoed.)

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#167

Post by pilsetnieks »

detaro wrote: post #148
xenophonf wrote: post #140

This is the country of the author who gave us ship names such as Gunboat Diplomat , You'll Thank Me Later , and (my personal favorite) I Blame Your Mother . You'd think the NERC would understand that it's all in good fun and would have the grace to use the name chosen by us unwashed masses. I mean, it's irreverent, but it isn't obscene, so who cares?

Reusing a Culture ship name would have been a great tribute, now that I think of it :(

At least Musk will do it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_spaceport_drone_shi...

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#168

Post by anon4 »

“That’s why we want a name that lasts longer than a social-media news cycle and reflects the serious nature of the science it will be doing.”

Huuh.. Reminds me a bit of the naming scheme of Culture ships following http://www.theguardian.com/books/2000/sep/11/iainbanks-scien... (search for MattB242's comment)

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#169

Post by aninhumer »

hartpuff wrote: post #164
aninhumer wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I said objecting to the name is childish. That doesn't mean I think everything should have whimsical names, and I really don't know how you interpreted that from what I said?

Did I say you said everything should have whimsical names? I asked if that is what you thought. Can't you tell the difference? So what's your presumably non-childish objection to other things being given "whimsical" names?

>So what's your presumably non-childish objection to other things being given "whimsical" names?

I don't object to that either?

Re: Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

#170

Post by noja »

red_admiral wrote: post #143

There's two things we British excel at, silliness and pedantry. So it's no suprise that the best objection I've heard to the name so far is that it's stupid because the vessel is clearly a SHIP, not a BOAT.

Shippy McShipface? Sounds like something from urban dictionary.
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