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San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

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Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gentrification makes housing more expensive in the short term. First order, that's good for landlords and bad for renters. Mixed for owner-occupiers - they have more wealth, but higher property taxes.

Not in California it isn't. Prop 13 limits property tax rates for owners.

Agreed. Was thinking of the Portland context.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#163
In the immediate sense, this is bad, long term one hopes, this will just accelerate the diffusion of technology centered companies away from the bay area and to the valleys and prairies and cities around the country, slowly transforming the economy as they spread out, or likely just spread out from these distant outposts.

Once the startups make it, rather than develop large campuses in the bay area they can expand elsewhere and take advantage of those workforces.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boulder as well. A buddy of mine had a hell of a time getting a condo with a mortgage. They were all bought up in cash within a day or 2.

Who are these people and where are they getting that kind of cash?

(Not OP, but know several people that do this sort of investing...)

It's a combination of

1.) Wealthy Asian businesspeople who are looking for a place to park some of the foreign reserves they own overseas.

2.) Hedge funds, investing institutional capital in relatively "safe" investments with guaranteed revenue streams.

3.) Corporate prop-trading desks, parking corporate profits in tax-advantaged long-term assets until its needed. Google, for example, is a major owner of affordable housing developments.

This is what often happens after a speculative bubble bursts: all the folks who invested based on irrational exuberance get cleaned out of the market, and then assets are transferred to other investors who are generally much more prudent, often using spare cash that was sitting on the sidelines. In this case, the assets just happen to be where everybody lives.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#165
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem with that logic is that the people at the 'top of the heap' - VC's, CEO's and the like are not the ones being priced out, mostly. Granted, a company might open an office somewhere else, but that's after it's already large and established. So you're kicking the marginal (in the economic sense) people out into marginal places where they have less access to what made the original area such a great pl…

maybe, i have neither a moral stance nor suggested solution for that. Seems to me that is a trait of capitalism/market economies; those who can pay the most get what they want.

Artificially restricting housing supply through SF-like approval processes is not capitalism, and rent control is a band aid. It is laws that highly favors the incumbents that already live there. Even if we determined who should be allowed to live here with some other mechanism than money we would still be housing supply constrained.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delaware, Maryland, Virginia

DC, Maryland, Virgina. Also known as the Washington metropolitan area ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_metropolitan_area ). Delaware doesn't have much of a tech sector.

To me, DMV stands for Department of Motor Vehicles.

DelMarVa is the geographic peninsula east of Chesapeake Bay and west of Delaware Bay.

The ring of urban sprawl around the federal capital is "The DC Area". Unfortunately, "DC Metro" is the train system, and "DC Metropolis" is where Superman lives.

The only (well paying) tech jobs in Delaware would probably be working on internal systems for credit card companies in Wilmington. Possibly also registered agent software for CT or CSC, or some other business revolving around corporate registration and reporting.

I can't help thinking "Columbia Metropolis" would be a better name for the urban areas around the District of Columbia. But I don't have the authority to just change the names of things.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#167
post #10
post #2

Portland resident here. What this article doesn't cover, is now locals are victim of gentrification. Rent prices are almost 2x, out of state buyers are throwing all cash offers on houses, and overall housing supply is low... I'm sure the commercial market is just as bad. Interesting times.

Same in Denver. Realtor told me 1/4 of properties don't make the MLS, they're bought with cash before they can get listed.

Here's a tip for Denver real estate that just worked very well for my wife an myself (who are closing on a house this week): Do not use a buyer's agent (get real estate attorney to help you instead), and make your offer 2.5% lower than the asking price. When making the offer just say that since there is no buyer's agent commission to pay out from the funds at closing you are choosing to offer less. Don't worry if the listing agent gets mad at you for doing this since many of them also represent buyers. Use Redfin to get very up-to-date MLS data. Find something close to downtown in Denver proper. Do not believe the FUD about competing bids and way over asking price bids, as those stories are mostly crap perpetuated by agents who seek to gain from twitchy buyers making bad decisions. Good luck people.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#168
post #11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did San Francisco become the hot property? I know that the last time I was out there, about 2005, tech was still in the valley and SF proper was relatively low rent, bad neighborhoods, and no tech presence. Does this industry (to the extent that you can call AirBNB, Uber, and Twitter the same industry) really act like a flock of grackles or starlings, descending on a place, eating everything, and moving on?

It seems to be full of people who want to be near art and "cool" people. Unfortunately tech doesn't find a way to pay those creators of culture anything. If anything, the focus is on finding ways to make everything free. So tech moves in, enjoys the presence of creative culture they refuse to fund, but ultimately inflates real estate so much they drive that creative culture away. Rinse and repeat. If art and culture…

One interesting explanation is that people seem to think (maybe rightly) that art and culture are cheapened by too much money. To be authentic, art and culture needs to be nearer to the struggling edges of society.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#169

Yes, rents are high, but if you invest even a little bit of time you can find a fine residence in the Bay Area for a lot less than $4,500. I rent a two bedroom house in Oakland for $2,200. My commute is not too much longer than it would be if I live in certain parts of San Francisco. There's simply little advantage to living right in the heart of a major city. You have to ask yourself: "Instead of renting in a high-p…

Did the same math for living in San Jose... With the price difference in rent, you could literally hire a private car plus driver to take you to-and-from the city every weekend.

The most insane part is the people who commute down to MTV (eg. Google) and only really get the benefit of the city on weekends anyway...

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#170
This is the result of people trying to get rich quick by simply having stuff rather than producing and maintaining stuff. I don't know what the answer is. I do think that San Francisco is poorly planned out based on my observations last year when I visited to see if I could live there. There is no mass transit system on the scale of NYC or one that's even trying to be. Everything seems really spread out. I felt like you needed a car to really be able to adequately take advantage of the area. I'm not really a fan of expensive rents and car culture. I also noticed people cheering when Twitter announced layoffs. I didn't leave with the impression the community had adequately benefited from the tech industry being in the area. The people I spoke with felt that the tech industry takes away but doesn't give back to the community.
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