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Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

psychologytoday.com

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Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#161

Post by fucking_tragedy »

md224 wrote: post #121
Fordrus wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rofl! These are interesting points, and honestly, cause for deep thought. If these premises are sound, one might argue that a large part of the rise of clinical depression as the problem is presently constituted coincided with the phasing out of the so-called 'opium cure.' XD (I'm so not willing to commit to that position, but I mean, just looking at only those facts you've popped in right there, it sure looks like a…

If you're interested in studying the closest thing to it, look at the rise in popularity of Kratom, a Southeast Asian plant containing opioid alkaloids. It's commonly used by opiate addicts as a replacement therapy, and also by others as self-medication for anxiety, depression, and pain. I'm not recommending anyone try it... nobody's entirely sure if it's safe, or if it could function as a gateway drug to harder opia…

> Kratom.. self-medication for anxiety, depression, and pain. > But it's worth considering the good it may be doing for some people.

The only the good it's doing these people is turing them into opioid addicts with a new problem that has a good chance of eclipsing the original and a certainty of exacerbating it severely in the long-run.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#162

Post by warmfuzzykitten »

The comments here are depressing. People who are actually depressed are saying that the author is completely wrong about their depression, while others with no experience of depression are nitpicking at them with for what passes for logic on the internet.

The truth is, this PhD is not a psychiatrist, appears to have little clinical experience except whatever his "practice" has thrown his way, and, tellingly, refers to "clients" instead of "patients".

Some depression is situational, for sure, but this is not a deep observation or original thinking. The author is perhaps qualified to treat situational, temporary depression but cannot speak to clinical depression or depression that arises from mood disorders. To the extent he is in denial that these forms exist he is mistreating his "clients", and he shouldn't have the support of a bunch of smarty-pants nerds when he does it.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#164

Post by DanBC »

md224 wrote: post #112
Fordrus wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, this is a fantastic and beautiful deconstruction of this argument, I LOVE this. The comparison to chronic pain is fantastic , because indeed, chronic pain is a side effect of many conditions, and if we were able to relieve the chronic pain somehow, we certainly would, but being currently unable, we seek means to treat the chronic pain . I've often held that the most insidious part about clinical depression is its…

I have this wacky idea that maybe, just maybe we should reconsider the point at which opiates would be appropriate for treating depression. I mean maybe make them a 2nd or 3rd line treatment... right now I'm pretty sure they'd only give you opiates once that whole "induce a controlled seizure" thing fails. Sure, they're addictive, but the "opium cure" was used up until the 1950's[1] and it's not like society was over…

There's some research happening recently arpund the use of ketamine as a short term measure to stop suicidal thinking or to get people out of deep treatment resistant depression.

So there's some possibility.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#165

Post by Terr_ »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #61
pc2g4d wrote: post #19

Amen to this article. As one who myself once believed my depression "came out of nowhere" (but which, in retrospect, was an obvious symptom of my emotionally destructive family and school environment) and who tried for many years to smother those feelings with antidepressants, I feel strongly that this article presents a wiser path. Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some p…

> Evolutionarily speaking, it seems likely that depression/anxiety are there for some purpose, and yet we treat them both like meaningless pain meant only to be banished using drugs. I believe both are signals that something in our environment is not working for us. They indicate emotional or physical needs unmet---needs for safety, autonomy, connection, etc. > Often the individual suffering is fundamentally unaware…

Just thinking out loud here: What about allergies?

In that model, what you need to fix is not to remove the trigger (e.g. the pollen may be safe) nor to inhibit the ability to respond (sometimes you need a big immune reaction) but instead to focus on whatever's gone awry with the fiddly logic in the middle that normally regulates frequency/severity/duration.

If that were the case, then the "depression reaction" might be a useful adaptation... but for some people it's occuring disproportionately.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#166

Post by argonaut »

warmfuzzykitten wrote: post #162

The comments here are depressing. People who are actually depressed are saying that the author is completely wrong about their depression, while others with no experience of depression are nitpicking at them with for what passes for logic on the internet. The truth is, this PhD is not a psychiatrist, appears to have little clinical experience except whatever his "practice" has thrown his way, and, tellingly, refers t…

His bio states: "Gregg Henriques, Ph.D., author of A New Unified Theory of Psychology, directs the Combined Clinical and School Psychology Doctoral Program at James Madison University. He is a licensed clinical psychologist..."

You're right that he isn't a psychiatrist, but he is a clinical psychologist. My educated layman's understanding is that this informs the more behaviorally/environmentally-driven view in his article, but because psychiatrists are trained from a traditional medicine/biology-focus, they are just as likely to be shifted towards the (also valid) biochemical explanations of depression (and the pharmaceutical treatments).

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#167

Post by _98fj »

The author fails to differentiate quite a few things here.

Long-term depression is a way of thinking and feeling that some people fall into easier than others and that is also cultivated over time.

If you had a rough childhood and coped with it by getting sad and finally dissociating from your emotions in an early age, and you proceed to do that for a long time, then you are likely to get what's called a major depression.

I don't know if I would call that a symptom or a disorder and I frankly think that most of the time it doesn't matter for the treatment.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#168

Post by marincounty »

md224 wrote: post #112
Fordrus wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, this is a fantastic and beautiful deconstruction of this argument, I LOVE this. The comparison to chronic pain is fantastic , because indeed, chronic pain is a side effect of many conditions, and if we were able to relieve the chronic pain somehow, we certainly would, but being currently unable, we seek means to treat the chronic pain . I've often held that the most insidious part about clinical depression is its…

I have this wacky idea that maybe, just maybe we should reconsider the point at which opiates would be appropriate for treating depression. I mean maybe make them a 2nd or 3rd line treatment... right now I'm pretty sure they'd only give you opiates once that whole "induce a controlled seizure" thing fails. Sure, they're addictive, but the "opium cure" was used up until the 1950's[1] and it's not like society was over…

I don't think prescribing opiates to the right patient is a bad idea, or just make them legal--which will never happen.

That said, you, or anyone else are not going to get opiates from any doctor in the United States. The federal government is comming down hard on doctors who prescribe opiates.

The FDA just sent out prescribing recommendations to all doctors. It is stern. It's basically telling doctors just don't prescribe them--period! Or, only to cancer, and for palliative care.

It will go down like this; patent will go to that rediculious office visit to discuss their pain(a lot of that pain is real. Opoids make you feel better, so the pain is bearable. There are people who stay on their original doses.)

Doctor will just say--no.

Patient will detox, and might die, if old, or has underlying health problems. Just like the way Jerry Garcia died out in Woodacre, CA.

Or, patient will go to herion? If they live in the right area, and they are willing to break the law?

Whatever--getting any opiates will be very difficult. The average patient will be in pain. I really don't like the way the government is telling doctors how to prescribe.

(Bupenorpine shouldn't be thrown in the opiate mix. I have never seen anyone abuse it--period. I know it's opoid like, but so different. I don't even think it possible to OD on this drug.)

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#169

Post by linhchi »

Maybe it's the lack of emotional education from my childhood or i was born with it, but i'm diagnosed that i don't feel for myself, and (worse) mirror all the feeling of others on me. Which explains why people tire me out so fast. And when i'm overwhelmed by people emotions in a room, i get iritated and aggressive (a lot).

Now I realise that anger is a self defense mechanism because when my system is overloaded with people's emotions, it's a desperate but sane manuever of my subconscious in order to cut off the situation completely.

Of course it's just a temporary solution and it has many consequences but if you're loading too much of others on you, your body has to issue an irrevokable state of mind.

I think it's similar to other "negative" symptoms. So when i started to meditation (in order to create an interface to talk with the hidden drive in my subsconscious), i regarded them as little wicked monsters, but not anymore, now i regard them as the only company i have in my breakdown episode. Because when you're depressed, you don't believe in whatever your loved ones say anymore. there's only you and the battle.

Re: Anxiety and Depression Are Symptoms, Not Diseases

#170

Post by jglauche »

warmfuzzykitten wrote: post #162

The comments here are depressing. People who are actually depressed are saying that the author is completely wrong about their depression, while others with no experience of depression are nitpicking at them with for what passes for logic on the internet. The truth is, this PhD is not a psychiatrist, appears to have little clinical experience except whatever his "practice" has thrown his way, and, tellingly, refers t…

From my own experience, I do trust anyone doing actual psychotherapy more (hence 'client') than a psychiatrist who see their patients for 10 minutes max. My therapist knows me so much better than any of the doctors. I've been enjoying going to my therapist, even though they force me to go there. Not so much the doctors they force me to go there (see http://jglauche.de/posts/misc/2016-01-30-discrimination-by-l... )
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