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FBI Wants It to Be Impractical to Deploy Strong Encryption Without Key Escrow

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Re: FBI Wants It to Be Impractical to Deploy Strong Encryption Without Key Escrow

#161
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/RentControl.html >Economists are virtually unanimous in concluding that rent controls are destructive. In a 1990 poll of 464 economists published in the May 1992 issue of the American Economic Review, 93 percent of U.S. respondents agreed, either completely or with provisos, that “a ceiling on rents reduces the quantity and quality of housing available.”

Ok, so economists agree that "a ceiling on rents reduces the quantity and quality of housing available". Thankfully, economists don't run our country. How does this support the statement "Rent control is fundamentally a tool for getting political benefits at the expense of economic ones."? Quantity and quality of housing are arguably much less important than ensuring there is a viable working class—just see how terri…

There's two different questions that policies should answer - what sort of stuff do we get out of it, and who gets that stuff. These are often referred to as allocative and distributive, though I'm remembering the precise technical wording from memory so I could be wrong on that.

That's the distinction that drove me to make the political versus economic benefits distinction. Rent control as a whole makes things worse - there's less housing, it's of worse quality, and it drives up the cost of market rate housing. On the whole, it's a bad allocation of resources: we'd much rather have cities with more housing that's of higher quality (because people are more than willing to pay for it). The problem is that this sort of policy creates winners and losers, and the losers are often the ones who get to set local policy.

There's two solutions - have a ban on rent control at a higher jurisdictional level (Washington State does this), or bribe current residents to lift rent control. The latter should make everyone better off - we pay for keeping the working class viable with the overall economic gains made by lifting rent controls.

Anyhow, my overall point is that we should hand out the who-benefits stuff without making society worse off as a whole, simply because the locals who happen to live in an area are able to hold overall policy hostage.

Re: FBI Wants It to Be Impractical to Deploy Strong Encryption Without Key Escrow

#162
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting article. I find amusing this (quite popular) type of argumentation: > "This is a serious security breach," said Councilman Peter Vallone (D-Queens), who heads the Council's Public Safety Committee. "We know terrorists are planning to attack our subways, and the MTA and NYPD better find these magical morons quickly, and then make them disappear for a year in jail." Like the only thing between terrorists an…

But that is so revealing of the mindset. * We can have strong encryption just for the good guys * We can have master keys that only approved staff will use * We can block all the bad things on the internet and it'll be like they don't exist * If we have a back door into an encrypted device, only the good guys will use it It's like no politician ever read about crime. Staff can't be blackmailed or bribed. No one worki…

The system is concerned with legibility to itself first, more than reducing crime. Without legibility, there is no avenue to even be effective through! Specific instances of staff being blackmailed or bribed are simply addressed through the traditional channels of power, and thus creation of their possibility is not a problem.

Re: FBI Wants It to Be Impractical to Deploy Strong Encryption Without Key Escrow

#163

Remember how New York’s (physical) master keys became easily accessible[1] despite the fact that they were supposedly so carefully managed? All that effort, all that trouble, and now not only is there essentially no security at all but the master keys created a security hole that did not need to exist. The security of encryption is similarly proportional to the security of keys. The fewer things you have to secure, t…

Something similar happened with the playstation 3 and its master key.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_homebrew

Re: FBI Wants It to Be Impractical to Deploy Strong Encryption Without Key Escrow

#164
post #29

Sort of a bummer that lawmakers don't have a better understanding of encryption in general and what it protects. They'd condemn hackers breaking into phones/accounts and stealing important notes/pictures, but turn around and condemn the very technology preventing that from happening to _everybody_ Anybody here want to run for office and be a voice for tech rights?

It might help if one of them gets their personal information leaked because they used unencrypted technology in their private lives. I do suspect this won't have any significant influence since they think the government will prevent the escrow from being hacked. Part of me hopes that there will be a significant data leak from whatever the NSA has stored. Maybe they'd realize that single point of failure sucks.

> It might help if one of them gets their personal information leaked because they used unencrypted technology in their private lives

This has already happened. An attacker going by the name Guccifer spent several years going around punking high ranking officials and ex-officials. Remember those goofy paintings of GW Bush's that hit the news a few years ago? Those were stolen and posted by Guccifer.

Re: FBI Wants It to Be Impractical to Deploy Strong Encryption Without Key Escrow

#165
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents worked for the NSA before there was an NSA. A guy came in to do a talk about how there is no such thing as security. He had a table with a bunch of common locks and even some safes. He proceeded to unlock each one in a matter of seconds to demonstrate his point. Modern encryption however is changing the game. It's no longer true that security is just a matter of perception. It's becoming a reality and that…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency#World... What did they do?

It's a secret - break codes and write code, ;). While the NSA was started in the 50s it was not widely known until the 70s https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/timeline

Re: FBI Wants It to Be Impractical to Deploy Strong Encryption Without Key Escrow

#166
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say something to invoke Godwin's law, but it seems pretty clear that genocidal governments that sweep into power love having access to copious amounts of detailed records.

They don't even have to be genocidal; they could just be Richard Nixon.

Or Donald Trump.

Re: FBI Wants It to Be Impractical to Deploy Strong Encryption Without Key Escrow

#167
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can "roll back" for mass marketed products but not for some simple, open source software in standard C that someone runs on an old PC with PC/DOS, no hard disk and no network connection. So, when turn the power off, the PC forgets everything about the de/encryption. The only non-volatile storage is on diskette. If worried, then just burn those. With the encryption done, the output is just a base 64 file of gibbe…

And then they will outlaw the possession of said standard C software, as well as of computer hardware that does not comply with government-mandated eavesdropping. And then they will pass laws that force you to give up the encryption key to that Base64 data or face imprisonment. Even if the Base64 data is just a sequence of completely random bits - because who would keep sequences of random bits around, unless they're…

> And then they will pass laws that force you to give up the encryption key to that Base64 data or face imprisonment.

IMNAL, but my understanding is that such a law would run into rock solid, granite hard, iron clad parts of a little issue called the US Constitution. E.g., if the cops ask you a question, then you don't have to answer. The person's lawyer can just tell the cops that "My client has no idea what that base 64 gibberish is."

For encryption as a recognized right, no, that's asking a bit much of the US political system.

BTW, for the person receiving the base 64 code (that's the way JPGs, etc. are sent in e-mail), first go through base 64 decoding and, then, apply the receiver's private key to that to decode back to the secret message, e.g., where and when the boy and his girlfriend are going to meet and carve their initials on a tree.

Base 64 is in the internet standard for e-mail and there is called MIME for multi-media internet mail extensions. So, the idea of MIME is to permit sending pictures, audio, movies, etc.

So, in arithmetic, base 10 has digits 0-9, that is, 10 digits. Base 16 has, right, 16 digits, 0-9-A-F. Base 2 has, you guessed it, 2 digits, 0-1. Well, presto, bingo, base 64 has 64 digits, 0-9, a-z, etc., all simple, ordinary printable characters such as e-mail had been sending right along.

Well, with 6 bits, can count from 0 to 63, that is, have 64 different patterns. So, given a stream of bits, can replace each 6 of them with one of the base 64 digits. And there is a simple solution for what to do with any few bits left over. So, that is how to take any stream of bits and 'encode' it to just printable characters easy to send via e-mail.

A huge fraction of all Internet data is sent as base 64. So, base 64 data alone is nothing suspicious.

Re: FBI Wants It to Be Impractical to Deploy Strong Encryption Without Key Escrow

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? It works. Cops without guns: https://youtu.be/cX5CPx4RKWw Cop with gun: https://youtu.be/RdoeBXt06Bc

Those cops were very brave, but you're going to be hard pressed to find even a tiny minority of Americans willing to put cop lives in that kind of danger.

The British approach is safer for both officers and the public. By emphasising containment and de-escalation, British officers avoid the kind of chaotic and unpredictable confrontations that lead to fatalities.

Only one British police officer was killed in the line of duty last year - PC David Phillips, who was run over during a pursuit. In the same year, eight American officers were killed by vehicular assault, 36 were fatally shot, three died after being assaulted and two died of accidental gunshot wounds. In 2014, no British police officer was killed on duty.

Even accounting for the difference in population and the prevalence of firearms, there is a substantial disparity. Britain does have armed criminals, but our police are not routinely armed.

There were riots across Britain in 2011, precipitated in large part by the fatal shooting by police of Mark Duggan. Only one other person was shot by the police in 2011. In the same year, the FBI estimated that 400 Americans were killed by police officers, but no official count exists.

There is considerable interest amongst US police forces in learning from the British approach, as shown in this documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66pr23xUKZc

Re: FBI Wants It to Be Impractical to Deploy Strong Encryption Without Key Escrow

#169
Scary that something so important will be determined by the perception of the vast majority of the public, who has no understanding of what's at stake.

To most people arguments like "it will help us find terrorists and pedophiles" and flawed analogies with doors and keys are much more appealing, only because they are easy to understand, while the opposite arguments sound philosophical, alien or carry less weight because they contradict what "the experts" (i.e. the FBI) claim.

But they shouldn't sound so: what's happening is wrong not just because of the practical fallacies of the pro-restrictions arguments -in which most discussions focus currently- it is wrong because the only way for government monitoring to be effective in the end, is to outright criminalise secure encryption by everyone. It should be blatantly obvious that the most dangerous of their claimed target group, wouldn't be dissuaded by the inconvenience of using custom/non-friendly software/hardware, so any lesser measure would be just useless.

And on that premise, how can many people not see how wrong it would be if one day we are called criminals for exchanging a truly private message with someone? In what words and with what simple examples can you make non-technical people see how bad this reality would be and how far it can stretch to things that they do care about? And that even if it didn't, it would still be fundamentally wrong...

Not a rhetorical question by the way, I've tried to participate in such discussions and failed miserably to be convincing -so any tips are appreciated.

Re: FBI Wants It to Be Impractical to Deploy Strong Encryption Without Key Escrow

#170
No FBI. Hell, not that long ago I started the work to become an agent. I love law. I love bad guys being put away. But you have _ZERO_ need for an escrow on strong encryption. It is perfectly legitimate that citizens don't give up their secrets. This is why we have discovery, warrants, and the Tenth Amendment (however riddled with holes it now is). The government has no compelling interest here.
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