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SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

washingtonpost.com

161–170 of 515 posts

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#161
post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

Yep, he's right. But like many a programmer, he just does not have a way with words.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#162
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. A lot of them are mentally handicapped or dealing with acquired mental illnesses. Even under good conditions, treating either is hard . Of course EMS/fire fighters/volunteers working in shelters aren't able to do that.

I've loaded many a homeless into my fire engine to take to the local Crisis Resource Center/ Behaviour Rehabilitation center because they begged and pleaded that they want help. Great! More often than not, we see them a few days later with Steel Reserve cans littered about after someone calls 911 for what appears to them a dead man on the side of the road. Mental illness is brutal. I feel for these guys, especially a…

Wanting help is not the same as being able to be helped. Veterans often have what is called 'treatment resistant PTSD', which is another way of saying that we haven't figured out how to treat them. There is a wealth of material on how even veterans who have supportive families and are housed and in treatment can't always hold down a job.

New treatments such as VR based exposure therapy, or MDMA therapy are promising, but the standard of care is currently CBT and/or drugs, which have generally poor outcomes.

We just don't know how to treat PTSD in general. This has nothing to do with whether people 'want' help or not.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#163
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work unless the person wants to recover. That's apart from the human rights violation.

Clue me in, what is the human rights violation? Or better yet, in descending order what are they in regards to those needing help but refusing it and possibly endangering themselves or others?

> needing help, refusing it and possibly endangering themselves and others?

Sounds like most drivers I know...

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#164
SF does have a much bigger homeless problem than other cities, and whether it is cause or effect, it's at least correlated with significant and chronic drug use.

I live in an area affectionately known as the 'tender knob'. We've had people defecate on our steps, tear open our garbage bins and leave litter everywhere, and shoot up drugs and leave dirty needles in our outside stairwell. Before moving to SF from NY, I had never seen people defecate on the middle of the sidewalk in the afternoon. The owners of our duplex live upstairs and they've been brought to tears having to deal with this on a weekly basis. I wouldn't feel safe having children in this area.

Yes there are homeless people who had some bad luck and are just trying to get back on their feet. Most people are sympathetic to that. But it's different in SF. Walking around you can't help but feel that many, if not most, of the people are chronically homeless drug addicts who have passed the point of no return. That's the problem we need to deal with.

Moreover, there seem to be strong network effects at work here. You might argue that by not 'pushing out the homeless', that you're actually maintaining a dangerous, self-reinforcing, social environment that is constantly attracting new members. In effect, are we making the problem far worse?

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#165
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our super-Conservative government for the last decade (now replaced by a young, hip, Liberal one) was actually really big behind the 'housing-first' method of helping the homeless (you get an apartment, no questions asked, then we work on your drug problems, etc later), and put a lot of money towards it. At first, this seems very socially liberal and at odds with a Conservative party kind of thing until you look at t…

Well, that's great, then. It seems like a liberal calling card but appeals to everyone's desire to save money while providing actually useful social services. So what's the political argument against it?

political arguments against anything these days are emotional reactions to parties and politicians rather than policy. people need to turn off the cable news and live less angry lives.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#166

What is a "SF tech bro"? In this context it seems to be intended as some kind of slur, or there is at least some negative connotation here. It's a man who works in tech who... what exactly?

It means a non-"progressive" White male who works in technology.

That does sound like what it means.

The behavior of the "tech bro" in question is certainly offensive and insensitive, however using terms that bigoted in a headline (shaming a minority group in "tech" for holding different political views) is something one would expect websites on both extremes of the political spectrum to engage in (Vox, Breitbart, ...) rather than the Washington Post, and it's a bit sad to see them resort to such outrageousness.

It's also disappointing to see HN moderators be OK with headlines like this.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#167
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work unless the person wants to recover. That's apart from the human rights violation.

Clue me in, what is the human rights violation? Or better yet, in descending order what are they in regards to those needing help but refusing it and possibly endangering themselves or others?

Tell me everything about your life, and I could envision a situation where an aspect of yourself could be considered too "abnormal" or "dangerous" in action or thought to be left untreated.

If people haven't harmed anybody, then they themselves shouldn't be harmed, even if professionals believe it is help. Removing that barrier opens the door to arbitrary treatment and involuntary commitment, the likes of which not seen since the 19th century.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#168

I was in Chinatown talking to my grandmother on my cellphone. A homeless person walked up and punched me in the face. SF has the worst homeless problem I've ever seen in the first world, and it rivals the worst of what I've seen in the third world. It's a disgrace and it sucks and I don't have to like it. Whatever the local/state government is doing isn't working. And sure, maybe a lot of the homeless are just normal…

   >  A homeless person walked up and punched me in the face.
Did he steal your phone, or just didn't like you?

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#169
post #37

Note that SF already spends a large amount on the homeless http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-spends-record... and that at least some politicians are starting to take notice http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2016/01/25/s-f-supervisor-scott-wie... It's not clear what the solution is to this complex problem.

Part of the solution will be a realisation that not everyone has a right to live in SF. Just like not everyone has a right to live in Newport. A part, but not a big part :)

> not everyone has a right to live in SF.

Ah, to see the American Dream expressed in such clarity in a comment on the internet. /me wipes a tear

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#170
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visited SF a few times, and I was always horrified to see how such a wealthy city leaves its homeless people to wander around, sleep in the cold and generally live in inhuman conditions. I won't claim I know enough about the city from two visits to propose any solutions, but I know that the fact that there are hundreds or thousands of people living like that is inexcusable. I've never seen this before to such exten…

The city spends $167 million [1] for a homeless population no larger than 15,000 (and probably closer to 7,000) [2]. The wealthy city isn't leaving anyone to his or her fate. To the contrary, it's expending vast amounts of wealth with precious little to show for it. [1] http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/S-F-spendi... [2] https://sfgov.org/lhcb/sites/sfgov.org.lhcb/files/2015%20San...

That's between 12k and 20k per person. Way less than you'd need to provide accommodation and treatment for a person with mental illness. It's not surprising it doesn't work.
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