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India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

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Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#161
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever you call it it works really well and India is stupid to play by the colonialist's rules. Look at China, they banned or restricted all the western web companies now they're home to thriving new web giants. With all of India's world class programmers where is India's Baidu or Wechat or Weibo or Alibaba?

Same place where France's Google, Germany's Amazon is at, they don't need it. China is wasting effort by creating things because they don't wanna use the things rest of the world uses, and the rest of the world doesn't wanna use their things because it would be giving power to a non-liberal democracy.

> the rest of the world doesn't wanna use their things because it would be giving power to a non-liberal democracy

Let's not get carried away. The rest of the world doesn't want to use their things due to a combination of (a) not knowing about the things; and (b) the things being in Chinese.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#162

Great quote on a different article covering the same story: http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/08/technology/india-facebook-fr... ---------- Mahesh Murthy, a prominent Indian venture capitalist, last year described the program as "imperialism and the East India Company all over again," carried out under the guise of "digital equality." "What Facebook wants is our less fortunate brothers and sisters should be able to poke e…

The problem with this sort of nationalism is that it's all talk. No one offers an alternative solution, so the poor continue to be poor. This attitude is what creates trade barriers and protectionist policies, and India won't solve their problems until they can compete with other nations on manufacturing and prices. The reality is that, unless you are able to keep up with modern tooling you're just going to keep falling farther and farther behind on quality and competitiveness. If India wants to improve the futures of a billion people, bold macro-economic changes have to be taken.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#163
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been debated to death. There is no evidence to prove this was wrong. People who are this childish to question government policy right after independence should understand prevailing conditions then. India just got free from a colonial power which had sneaked in with trade as a excuse and then ruined pretty much everything for the next 3 centuries. Conditions prevailing, Nehru did what he could. He saw what h…

> India just got free from a colonial power which had sneaked in with trade as a excuse and then ruined pretty much everything for the next 3 centuries. It's funny though West Germany, which was completely ruined by WW2 emerged as a lot more prosperous country than what India did for the first 40 years. Do you have any idea how badly Germany was bombed. If you say things like "But Germany is an exception because X",…

South Korea is a country that's like 1/2 the size of Karnataka, and is mostly a US colony. With US military bases and its economy largely set up to keep China in check.

Germany(Which was highly developed nation even before WW2) and Korea, were split to become proxies for USSR and US. A move in which people lost a more than they gained. We opted to be non allied. The magic is not capitalism. The magic is in being a proxy state to a super power(The very thing we gained independence from).

>>1990s onwards we have made our lives so much better, and the shit didn't have to be so bad for our forefathers and parents.

You are looking at the results, without looking at the ingredients and ecosystem required to produce those results. Capitalism doesn't work the way you think. There is no magical wand, or a policy incantation that can fix things without supporting infrastructure and ecosystem. There is no way, no magical mantra to pull out thousands of non existent engineers/doctors/skilled professionals out of the nothing in 1947, in an country where 95% were farmers, and the remainder in non productive jobs. There is also no way without this absent workforce and non existent money for you to build hundreds of industries and businesses. In a non existent government institution to collect taxes, and then build road and other supporting infrastructure. Even the US after all these years heavily relies on skilled professionals from foreign countries coming to their country and builds the ecosystem for them to immigrate, and those skilled professional go there because they are constantly building those infrastructure to support it.

You are inheriting a country, which doesn't have a proper working administration. Let alone institutions to collect taxes, or plan economies at scale. Nor do you have access to skilled talent, or ecosystem or infrastructure to build industries.

Yet despite all this we have crawled our way out.

The only reason why you see the free market reforms in 92 even worked is because, there was an industrial base in South India, and there were engineering colleges that had been developed over time, producing engineers and industries, which can now be scaled to a larger economy.

>>All Indians do is give excuses for why India was poor, but nearly all their excuses can be best represented by the biggest excuse of them all 'Hindu rate of growth'.

Or somebody like you should show us, how one could actually create stuff out of literal nothing.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#164
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to read the glorious days of protectionism and economy of India from 1950-1990. 4% growth has its own nick-name, "Hindu rate of growth".

This has been debated to death. There is no evidence to prove this was wrong. People who are this childish to question government policy right after independence should understand prevailing conditions then. India just got free from a colonial power which had sneaked in with trade as a excuse and then ruined pretty much everything for the next 3 centuries. Conditions prevailing, Nehru did what he could. He saw what h…

In 1950s India was actually called "Hope of Asia", even by the Colonialists who left them. But under the auspicious of Nehru and then under Indira Gandhi, India aped Soviet style planning and top down approach for a country that is a "natural confederation", marginalized local government and consolidated power in the Center, and the Nationalization of banks which has not great National Security implications. JRD Tata was correct, if you want to read the counter vision to Nehru, read up on JRD Tata. He was proponent for free market capitalism, which would have had far better results.

India is the top-dog in the region, and trying to show Pakistan which is nothing but an Islamist Garrison State. Coup-ridden and Confused Bangladesh or Civil-War ridden Sri Lanka as counter examples for not following Nehruvian Socialism, makes me feel that intellectually we are in two completely different dimensions.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#165
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet is not "a product", it is an essential utility. Rich people pay more than poor people for roads, but they get the same access to them as poor people. This is what the internet should be like. Historically, price differentiation for network infrastructure has been due to costs, not artificial market segmentation; it's important this continues to be the case for the majority of net citizens. As we've seen…

This is what the internet should be like. The thing is: how does banning Free Basics / Internet.org provide that? That's what bothers me about this movement: it should be about giving poor people free access to the Net (which would just render Facebook's toy platform irrelevant - no need to ban it). Today a bunch of activists are celebrating victory, but tomorrow the poor will still have no Internet access. It's hard…

> but tomorrow the poor will still have no Internet access

That would still be the case if the verdict was the other way around. There's no evidence that Free Basics actually brought a significant number of new people on the internet (the rate of people cited as joining Free Basics is comparable to the rate of people joining the internet in general, so it didn't change anything)

Note that data plans are pretty cheap in India. The cost of a smartphone that can handle modern websites (especially Facebook, which breaks on old/slow phones and browsers) is more than the cost of a few year's worth of data.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#166
post #162

Great quote on a different article covering the same story: http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/08/technology/india-facebook-fr... ---------- Mahesh Murthy, a prominent Indian venture capitalist, last year described the program as "imperialism and the East India Company all over again," carried out under the guise of "digital equality." "What Facebook wants is our less fortunate brothers and sisters should be able to poke e…

The problem with this sort of nationalism is that it's all talk. No one offers an alternative solution, so the poor continue to be poor. This attitude is what creates trade barriers and protectionist policies, and India won't solve their problems until they can compete with other nations on manufacturing and prices. The reality is that, unless you are able to keep up with modern tooling you're just going to keep fall…

I think for all meaningful solutions discussion and "talk" is critical. What would happen if India did not take offence to the free basics program as is ? It is crystal clear that FB was trying to muscle its power around as this meant a large demographics for them.

Its a win for India. Win for the free market.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#167
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the David's won this round, it was against an opponent (or group of) which made several tactical errors. We need to build a more lasting institution to prepare in advance for future papers, have lists of people it can reach out to, and manage the hidden minutiae required to combat these issues. Because Next time it may not be Facebook, it may be the GoI itself, or reliance.

Even in the US we see people finally getting tired of the candidates pushed by Big Money, and many appear to have woken up and reject the candidates pushed by Big Money by default - like they won't even give them a second look. I think this trend will only grow in the future, and I hope it grows enough and it gathers enough political will to actually drastically limit Big Money influence (that includes limiting corpo…

I'm an expat and wanted to vote in absentia for the presidential election (which you can do) when it was first legal for me to do so. The procedure isn't too hard, but I decided it was not worth it when I remembered that my official "home state" is a blue state, and the electoral college means that my vote won't matter :|

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#168
post #68

This has been like watching one form of misinformation battling another form of misinformation. One set of misguided people battling another set of misguided people. NetNeutrality is a concept that makes sense in a western context where carriers are basically monopolies. It's unbelievable how good arguments in one context, have been blindly applied to a completely unrelated context. Activists in the West (who's rep a…

Having stayed in both the US and India for significant part of my adult life, I feel qualified enough to understand both perspectives: 1. Does FreeBasics help poor people? May be it does in the short term but the long term consequences are irreversible. This is like losing forest for the trees. 2. Subsidies of various kinds have been around since Independent India and to be true, they are what have held back. To unde…

It will become a large economy, Developed country not in the next 2 decades.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#169
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been debated to death. There is no evidence to prove this was wrong. People who are this childish to question government policy right after independence should understand prevailing conditions then. India just got free from a colonial power which had sneaked in with trade as a excuse and then ruined pretty much everything for the next 3 centuries. Conditions prevailing, Nehru did what he could. He saw what h…

In 1950s India was actually called "Hope of Asia", even by the Colonialists who left them. But under the auspicious of Nehru and then under Indira Gandhi, India aped Soviet style planning and top down approach for a country that is a "natural confederation", marginalized local government and consolidated power in the Center, and the Nationalization of banks which has not great National Security implications. JRD Tata…

>>In 1950s India was actually called "Hope of Asia", even by the Colonialists who left them.

Truly so, We didn't have the great famine like China(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine) where close to 45 million people died. We didn't remain like Bangladesh, which is still a peasant economy. Nor do we have internal troubles that Pakistan has currently. We have refused to be proxy states to USSR and USA. And we are quite progressive economically. True we haven't eradicated poverty and hunger yet, but neither has any country of our scale.

>>But under the auspicious of Nehru and then under Indira Gandhi, India aped Soviet style planning and top down approach for a country that is a "natural confederation"

Why wouldn't they copy USSR? It was a economic model that is paying off Russia till date. Russia went from a peasant state, under Tsar's control to becoming a unchallenged super power in half a century. Heck there is no absolute free market anywhere, the only question is to what extent do you allow it. Even countries like US, have a central planning where they decide budgets.

>>RD Tata was correct, if you want to read the counter vision to Nehru, read up on JRD Tata. He was proponent for free market capitalism, which would have had far better results.

If I were the Prime minister of a new independent nation, with no sizable skilled population, and a agrarian peasant ecomony. My priorities would be way different. I would be looking at how I can build the next generation engineering colleges(IIT's), management colleges(IIM's), the best administrative cadre(IAS), I would be looking at building irrigation infrastructure for farm lands to end drought and famine(Dams and reservoirs), I would be looking at energy generation(Power plants, hydel power), I would looking at bringing internal peace and harmony(Police force), I would looking at building in-house skilled labour(Government polytechnics), manufacturing capabilties among my fellow citizens(ITI, BEL, BHEL), my own defence manufacturing, research and developement(HAL, DRDO, ADE etc), I would looking at building my future space program(ISRO), my own nuclear program. All this in a hostile neighbourhood. Without any of these, simply thinking that a smal policy change is over simplification of a very complicated problem.

This is how governments think. Priorities of a business family would be way lower on my list.

Nehru has already done more nation/institution building work, than any Prime minister will ever do.

>>counter examples for not following Nehruvian Socialism, makes me feel that intellectually we are in two completely different dimensions.

No, we are in the same boat. I support hard core free market capitalism. But a child needs to crawl first before it can think of running or beating Usain Bolt.

You can't build a F-16, when you don't even know/have skills to repair a bicycle.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#170
post #114

Mark "tried to solve a non existent problem" and fell over. India is not a country where everyone rides on bullocarts or tuk tuks. Its a fast developing nation. Its not what you see in Hollywood movies or western medias. India do not need help on the internet side of things.

With 56% of population agrarian, India is not as modern as the Urban Middle Class wants itself to believe.
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