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Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

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Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#161

What a big steaming pile of political correctness. The author interviews a tiny handful of mediocre college students who blame their "color" for not getting hired right out of school by big, glamorous tech companies. Are we supposed to be sympathetic? I remember my own struggles to break into the tech business, many years ago now. Although white and "privileged", i.e. no cultural barriers to entry, I found it very to…

Affirmative action is a failure; it's nothing but a form of welfare. Failure from what vantage point? If you want to keep society stable and peaceful, some degree of welfare is probably necessary, for otherwise, those that imagine themselves to be wronged might just band together and violently take what they think has been denied to them.

I imagine pacification is not the goal of most affirmative action proponents.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#162
post #18

"as the only African American on her team, she didn’t feel she had much in common with her colleagues. “When I went out to lunch or something with my team, it was sort of like, ‘Soooo, what are you guys talking about?’ ” she says" I find this sentence really shocking, perhaps because I'm french and in France we try to assimilate people more (I don't really know), but I would definitely think that as a white software…

>> ...in France we try to assimilate people more... Really? What about the Muslim immigrants in the suburbs, who are practically in a separate world from mainstream French, cut off and unable to get in on the lifetime jobs that the French middle and upper middle class enjoy? French-African entrepreneurs report that they have better luck doing business with Americans, who don't care what your race is as long as you pa…

It is an issue but a complex one. It's not like the whole country decided to put all Muslims there and never give them a job or education.

And you should know they are plenty Muslims (and/or Arabs) programmers coming from the suburbs and having that coveted middle-class life, I worked and have worked with many.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As soon as a minorty achieves success (and often disproportionate success) they are no longer considered minorities.

As someone who isn't a native English speaker, I've long noticed that, as you mention, "minority" doesn't mean "the opposite of majority" (I'm not sure since when, or exactly what it does mean; you say success is key, but success in what field - chess, boxing, beer-making? Listing just a dozen fields is probably enough to demonstrate that no minorities exist according to the "success" definition.) However, to return…

Didn't they ironically misappropriate a term to unambiguously describe this? Caucasian.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#164

What a big steaming pile of political correctness. The author interviews a tiny handful of mediocre college students who blame their "color" for not getting hired right out of school by big, glamorous tech companies. Are we supposed to be sympathetic? I remember my own struggles to break into the tech business, many years ago now. Although white and "privileged", i.e. no cultural barriers to entry, I found it very to…

White women are the biggest beneficiaries of AA http://www.timwise.org/1998/09/is-sisterhood-conditional-whi...

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#165
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply stating a number like that adds absolutely nothing of value. There are a lot of questions you need the answers to in order to make any kind of judgment: - What is the racial makeup of the accepted applicant pool? - What is the racial makeup of the interviewed applicant pool (including those not extended offers)? - What is the racial makeup of the overall applicant pool (including those not invited for intervie…

Silicon Valley can recruit and train African Americans. Why not do it?

Probably because it's totally asinine to say to someone "Hey you're black, come work for us!"

If you're suggesting that African American Computer Science majors should all get hired immediately out of school so that Google can increase its count from 1.0% to 1.02%, it doesn't work like that.

Two things in this discussion actually matter if you want to affect meaningful change:

1. The racial makeup of graduating Computer Science majors compared to the makeup of the US population. If only 2% of graduating CS majors are from a race that makes up 13% of the US population, you will never have anything approaching proportional representation.

2. The racial makeup of applicants compared to the makeup of those applicants extended offers. This is really the step where, if there are company-level systemic issues around race, they will show up. If 10% of your applicants are a given race but 1% are extended offers there might actually be an issue. This is much harder to determine because not only is it very hard to get the data, but you need a sufficient number of applications to get meaningful results. If you only get 100 resumes a year for a dozen positions, you won't get anything useful here.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#166
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is what is so hard about it. Everybody gets treated unfairly from time to time, feels awkward, etc. When you are "black" you don't know the line between racism and man's general inhumanity towards man.

This is where shallow discussion of racism can be damaging. If someone receives enough messages indicating that they will be mistreated due to race it is likely to have a major impact on their psyche, then on their behaviour, then on the way they're treated... because of their race.

Racism is a very real thing. Look at the way blacks get treated by the cops.

Being the middle aged "ethnic white" in the Northeast I am not only submissive to cops, but I look like them -- none of my family are college professors but a lot of them work in various branches of law enforcement.

I know their point of view is not the only point of view, but I understand it enough that I come across as somebody who understands their point of view so I have a hard time getting tickets and usually get off with a warning.

For instance I was speeding in a residential zone and the officer got a clear picture of somebody who wouldn't like people driving fast in his residential neighborhood, not somebody who has a favorite residential neighborhood to practice Japanese street racing.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#167
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I remember my own struggles to break into the tech business, many years ago now. Although white and "privileged", i.e. no cultural barriers to entry, I found it very tough and had to jump through hoops, work my way up from semi-tech to actual development positions Imagine you actually had cultural barriers to entry to deal with as well.

Imagine you actually had cultural barriers to entry to deal with as well. Have you considered that the non-Americans that are successful in SV had much larger barriers to break, including learning new languages, and dealing with visa hassle? For example my girl friend was deported the other day because a border guard (wrongly) though she didn't have the right visas to enter the country we are living in when we return…

Sure. Isn't it the case that relatively few of those folks are successful, even though there absolutely are those who succeed spectacularly?

That seems analogous to what's being claimed here: that the deck is stacked against minority applicants, not that it's impossible for them to be successful (and certainly there are quite a few who are successful).

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#168
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Affirmative action is a failure; it's nothing but a form of welfare. Failure from what vantage point? If you want to keep society stable and peaceful, some degree of welfare is probably necessary, for otherwise, those that imagine themselves to be wronged might just band together and violently take what they think has been denied to them.

I imagine pacification is not the goal of most affirmative action proponents.

That's true, but it might be parts of the reason why those who accept it, accept it.

If you think about the invention of the welfare state by (to simplify matters greatly) Bismarck, then this was quite explicitly to defang the socialist movements that were threating the established social order of his time, and did manage to set the world aflame with the Russian Revolution.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#169
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not what she says, her problem isn't that she doesn't like Marvel Cinematic Universe but that she feels that she doesn't have much in common with people of other races.

I think that's stretching it. What she said is she doesn't feel like she has much in common with these particular people , not people of other races in general. Most "engineering-types" would probably feel the exact same way if they were asked to join the sales team at their company. Talk about culture shock...

It's not stretching it at all. It's literally what she said:

> as the only African American on her team, she didn’t feel she had much in common with her colleagues.

Re: Silicon Valley and Black Coders: Howard University fights to join the tech boom

#170
post #9

> One senior, Sarah Jones, ... “There are not a lot of people of color in the Valley—and that, by itself, makes it kind of unwelcoming." This statement may be true if "people of color" means African American. Otherwise, it is just not the fact. I do think, through my personal experience, the Valley is probably the most diverse place that I have been. I've seen people all over the wrold here: Asian, Latino, European,…

I also work in a similarly "diverse" office (east coast, household name software company) but I don't see things nearly as rosey as you do I think. As a white software engineer I'm typically in the extreme minority (I'd say it's a 70/30 split, and of course unless I am in a meeting with mostly management types) and the majority being asians and southeast asians here on work visas.

As this relates to the article I find it incredibly sad that my employer can't find citizens of any color to fill positions and instead chose to hire people coming from countries with dubious education systems.

Instead of bringing over "the best and brightest" to do low quality work at 70k/yr, I'd much prefer our industry and government focus on training its citizens to fill these positions first.

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