161–170 of 279 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
EVERYONE. In Spain they do it twice. Cause they are gangsters.
In France, it depends where you live, in some area people do it up to 4-5 times. It can be quite disturbing, even for a french :)
2. This is partially why HR exists. HR isn't just there to handle payroll. More people should do this, rather than let things fester or ignore things that should be reported.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have to write this comment pretty carefully to avoid vindicating the offender or blaming the victim. It seems to me like the victim wasn't making it clear that she was uncomfortable (this is not her fault), and perhaps the offender was picking up on signals that weren't there. The situation needed to be fixed, but the behaviour mentioned in the article could have been more flirtatious than forced. A zero tolerance…
> It seems to me like the victim wasn't making it clear that she was uncomfortable The default position should be to assume that everybody is uncomfortable with everything unless otherwise stated. It's like a good firewall policy - default block all and then explicitly allow.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You do not need a "clear rejection" to make something harassment. If I've never spoken to someone but I spend ten minutes a day staring at her chest, that's harassment. If I ask someone out, they say yes, and keep rescheduling 100 times, me continuing to ask them out and not take the (subtle, non-obvious) hint is still harassment.
Looking at someone is harassment now? I must have harassed hundreds of women then, What about thinking about them?
I'm not talking about a glance because a woman is wearing a new shirt. That's not harassment, nobody ever said it was, and asserting otherwise is a straw man. But ogling the hot girl every day is.
I'm not so sure about this one. I think sexual harassment and direct flirtation can become confused depending on the perspective of the recipient. Men have been making advances toward women throughout history and, perhaps to a lesser extent, women do the same toward men. Far more workplace flings happen than any company (and even many employees) will admit and it often starts with one party or the other making their…
It was a female colleague, not HR. According to the article, HR was fully behind her, as they should be.
> This honestly sounds like he was a guy who got attracted to a colleague, made steadily increasing verbal advances (which were not rebuffed), and then got blindsided by HR.
Not just a colleague, a report. This is what's important. HR would have frowned on a manager making advances on his reports, if nothing else. Especially advances on a new report during her first week.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well this was in the US, where people do not kiss colleagues on the cheek. I know your intentions are fair in mentioning this cultural practice but that sort of justification also presents a fair amount of minimization of obvious harassment. I mean, do you kiss everyone on the cheek in Spanish-speaking countries or just very close friends?
EVERYONE. In Spain they do it twice. Cause they are gangsters.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You should spend less time condemning other people and more time reading what they wrote. You could spend less time assuming I didn't read everything. The attitude of "saying she should stand up for herself, at least once, before going to HR" is hardly "condemning".
Your comments have been consistently dismissive and peppered with the vocabulary to match: referring to whingers, scare quoting “victims” or using phrases like "culture of victimhood”, tossing in snide references to Tumblr, etc. Again, it's great that your mother was able to successfully break a barrier. That doesn't mean everyone will also have success as easily using the same approach or that it's ever reasonable t…
No, it doesn't, and I never said it did. But you can only succeed at the things you actually attempt.
Office environments today are like minefields. A man never knows when his next step, word, or simple action will be misconstrued as harassment. Hold a door? Thats harassment. Wink ;-) in an email or IM? Thats harassment. Tell an off-color joke? Thats harassment. Complement female coworkers outfit? Thats harassment. Stand too close in an elevator or inline at the canteen? Thats harassment. Getting caught looking looki…
> Hold a door? I don't think holding a door has ever been seriously considered harassment. Yes, some people do get upset by it. > Wink ;-) in an email or IM? If you need emoticons in professional correspondence you should probably rethink what you're trying to say. I also don't think an emoticon has ever been considered harassment. > Tell an off-color joke? A. What's your definition of off-color? B. Unless you're a c…
I get emojis from our legal and marketing teams all the time. It is a part of office culture in many / most places I would imagine.
Here is my off-color joke:
Q. How many feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A. One. AND THATS NOT FUNNY!
Yes, I can complement anyone I like. I don't need to have a pre-existing relationship to do so.
Here is the problem -- there are so many unintentional actions that occur. I might be in a hurry and reach across someone in the canteen. Rude? Perhaps. Harassment, nope.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It seems to me like the victim wasn't making it clear that she was uncomfortable The default position should be to assume that everybody is uncomfortable with everything unless otherwise stated. It's like a good firewall policy - default block all and then explicitly allow.
That's a good way to wind up unhappy and alone at work. Chances are that anyone using that strategy and isn't miserable has a fair number of unspoken assumptions about acceptable behavior, and don't actually use that strategy but are slightly more guarded that normal so they think they do.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps. She did not live long enough to experience the "culture of victimhood" herself, so I can't say what she would have done. I do know she wasn't fond of the idea in the 70s and 80s, and regularly eschewed the notion that she was any different from any of the men with whom she worked. But the fact that she was a "quiet" feminist, that did things, rather than talking about doing things, leads me to believe you ma…
>>"culture of victimhood" You seem to have trouble between people who play the victim for attention (which is what that phrase refers to) and those who are actually victims. Just because some victims are capable of defending themselves doesn't change anything. Your mother was a victim too.
Only in your mind, not in hers.