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The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

theguardian.com

161–170 of 182 posts

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my belief. It was worse when Congress was in power. Now that Modi is in power, I'm hopeful India's state would improve. But this goes without saying, I don't really know. No one really knows. Modi has committed a lot of atrocities during his term as a CM for Gujarath. The only feeling that sticks with me is, fear/uncertainty of future. Still not sure why I'm being down voted. I did provide some reasoning as t…

As someone who doesn't know a lot about Indian politics, could you please tell me why there seems to be a large liberal crowd in India that's very anti-Modi? I heard recently Arundhati Roy returned her government honors, for example.

Arundathi Roy is anti-National. If you read any of her books she is absolutely anti-Hindu and mostly talks in favor of terrorists. She shares dias with Naxalities and Kashmiri Separatists. I wouldn't even call her an Indian. Read more about why here: https://in.news.yahoo.com/wonder-arundhati-roy-even-indian-a...

This liberal crowd is what we call "pseudo-liberal, pseudo-secular". It's all a pretense. These are stooges of the Indian National Congress who spread misinformation among the Indian public. They used divide and rule policy to divide communities among religious lines and then used the minorities for votebanks. India tolerated them for almost 60 years. This is the first time India elected a party apart from Congress with such a huge majority. So the liberal crowd is not really "large". They are few and on the payroll of Indian National Congress (because it was the INC which gave them the honors).

India during the rule of Indian National Congress was effectively put under a National Emergency under Prime Minister Indira Gandhi during the 70s (Read more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emergency_(India)). The entire Media was censored, the democratically elected Opposition leaders thrown behind bars (with some who were even sent to gallows but narrowly missed it, some even died) and a mass-sterilization campaign was carried about by them on the Indian public. Can you imagine the Government barging into your house and sterilizing you forcibly so you can never pro-create? None of these so called "liberals" returned their awards and honors during that time. Not even when the same Indian National Congress committed genocide of the Sikhs in 1984 riots (Read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_anti-Sikh_riots). They did not do anything when radical Islamists butchered Kashmiri Pandits and drove them out of Kashmir (Read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiri_Pandit#Exodus_from_Ka...). Where was this "liberal" crowd then?

However, only after 18 months of BJP coming to power, with Narendra Modi at the helm, they started this drama of "Intolerant India" all because the Bihar (Indian state) elections was underway. As soon as the election was over, they disappeared. Do you hear about any of these so called "liberals" giving away honors now? Nope. Why did this movement suddenly die out? Has India which was intolerant for these so called "liberals" for past 18 months suddenly become tolerant after the elections?

But things are changing now. We have a really strong Prime Minister who is focused on development and bettering India's infrastructure. We have normally stayed away from participating in Wars and always took a neutral stand. However, for the first time, India has taken a stand against ISIS by declaring that it is willing to fight under the UN flag (Read here: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-ready-for-ope...). This would never have happened if the Indian National Congress was at the helm of affairs as we have always refrained from military invasions abroad.

The heads of the Indian National Congress (Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi) on the other hand are facing serious corruption charges and will have to face court proceedings tomorrow (Read more about the case here: http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/bail-for-gandhis-tomorro...).

I tried my best to explain the Indian political situation from my point of view. Hope this helps give more clarity :)

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#162
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too hate corruption. It's the main reason why the south of Europe is doing so badly. If corruption was lower where I'm from, Portugal, we could easily double our GDP. Corruption makes people miserable and not only the ones forced to pay the bribes. It's like an unwritten and arbitrary set of rules that turns simple transactions into negotiations. This not only saps energy and time but it is also deeply unfair as yo…

+1 Italian here. It's not just corruption here but almost every social interaction is built as an exchange of favours. From having a job to not getting screwed from the auto shop, you live off a network of people owing you and you get in their circles by owing them back. It's a very powerful system because everyone understands the honour it's based on, you can't track it because it's immaterial and it's so widespread…

Moderately amusing story.

I was born and raised in the USA, but my parents emigrated from Italy.

About 20 years ago, my brother applied to grad school @ MIT (physics department).

Somehow, my father got it in his mind that he would "help out" by contacting the US Congressman in our district (whom he knew somewhat well) so that the Congressman could contact the physics department and facilitate my brother's acceptance.

Predictably, my brother blew a head-gasket. He tried explaining that:

* he would feel incredible shame if he was accepted due to outside meddling.

* the chances of this working to my brother's advantage were approximately zero.

* it might even _reduce_ the likelihood of acceptance.

The funniest part was that my father was bewildered by our reaction. His attitude was _"I don't understand you people. This is how you get things done!"_

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#163
post #14

It is hard for those in Western countries to imagine what it is like to live in a corrupt state like that. Eastern Europe is like that as well. Corruption is a way of life. It starts from bribing the doctor who will deliver the baby, to bribing kindergarten teachers, to high school teachers, paying to cheat on a state exam, buying a driver's license etc, until bribing the cemetery to take make an extra spot for the d…

I am from a country where corruption is rampant. I don't think corruption is a cause, but an effect. You see certain economic schools of thought believe in the absolute power of the Market to solve issues. Corruption is the Free Market solution to economic inequality. In a society with very little opportunity for economic and social mobility and no faith in The State people will always have a market for alternative solutions to the mobility problem.

As in the article, for every engine, paid for by rich applicants, there was at least one(but probably upto 6 by my estimates) bogie, low paying applicants. Since the investigation will take years, by which time the evidence would be eroded and so would the faith in The State. Since India is growing economy with multitudes of social issues, the economic inequality would further increase inequality, creating more of a market for corruption.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#164
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is the case, Southern European corruption should reduce in the future, because now Catholics are literate too. India still has terrible public education, so it may take them longer to catch up.

India also has to dismantle the social systems and institutions set up by the British, which were designed to make people at the top rich, instead of running for the benefit of society. Dismantling this is hard work, and you cannot simply destroy a bureaucracy without having a replacement ready (or chaos). WWII was good for Europe in some ways, because it massively destroyed the aristocracy and a lot of bureaucracy a…

Yes, a lot of change cannot be done without massive upheaval - this is the dilemma we face in Africa.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#166

I've come to the conclusion over the last several years and specifically after spending a bit of time in India, that corruption is the #1 challenge facing humanity. In the past I believed that poverty was largely due to a lack of resources (food, housing, etc) but I've come to believe that corruption is actually the source of this "lack of resources" -- the resources are most likely not lacking at all, they are proba…

I know I'm inserting an unrelated topic into the conversation but....

I absolutely agree with you, and this is why I think FOSS culture has taken off and built such effective tools. Sure, corruption can and does happen with FOSS, but it's hard to hide when the entire process is transparent. That forces you to do things the "right" way, rather than "in the dark"

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are traffic scenarios where it's too dangerous to stick with the legal speed limits.

I was about to downvote you, since I think this statemment is, well, moronic. Instead I kindly ask you to elaborate on just one situation, where exceeding the speed limit avoids danger. Edited to add : To be clear: Speeding up upon overtaking doesn't count. If you need to do that you should not have overtaken in the first place, since it was obviously dangerous.

Here's a pointer to a couple of engineering studies I found interesting, personally: https://www.motorists.org/blog/how-should-speed-limits-be-se...

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound a bit harsh, but as someone not from the US, I was surprised that these things count when it comes to getting an admission. Does any particular hobby makes someone a better person? Or a 20-year old without a transformative life experience isn't capable of achiveing the same things? These factors are way to subjective.

It doesn't make someone a better person, but it does make someone a well-rounded person and I think there's ample evidence to support that well-rounded people often become better employees. If university admissions were purely exam-based, the quality of US universities would instantly decrease, as would their international appeal.

How do you decide what subset of applicants get to enjoy that high quality education that makes them "well-rounded"? This is the problem we're discussing, not if an Ivy League education is good for you.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the mismatch. Honor and reputation work for small high-trust societies where everyone knows each other, but a nation state (not to mention a global economy) requires more robust enforcement mechanisms.

On honor: It is that you can't really kick someone out of a nation state. In a smaller society, when you are dishonored, you leave the group. In a nation, you can't really do that, so we have made up ways to do so in a half way, namely prison. Honor doesn't really work in a nation state. Brett McKay has a lot to say about honor in the modern world starting here: http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/10/01/manly-honor-pa…

They took away my family's right to vote in Pakistan. I think you can come up with plenty of ways to kick people out of a nation state short of making them stateless (which I guess isn't kosher after WWII) I suppose another good example would be the Rohingya in Myanmar

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#170

A true good at heart multi-billionaire CAN change India/ Indians and drive 1/5th of the humans to be good example of future world. Which will bring lot of stability to the world and make Africa and other poor countries to have belief in "good system". Indians are are very good at idolizing and following a person. Like Gandhi or today's Sachin or whoever. There is lot of people praying if god will send a person to cha…

What would they invest in?
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