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Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

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Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is remarkably different. The amount of Asians/South Asians in tech is very high. If there were material racism, then you wouldn't see this. I don't know anyone who wouldn't hire a smart person based on their race. I'm sure it exists in small quantities, just like everywhere else, but I believe it's much smaller in tech than any other industry. The reason why there aren't a lot of blacks and Hispanics in tech I bel…

The article itself says that only 4.5% of CS graduates from the top universities are black, so if you're only hiring graduates of those universities then you're never going to have a diverse workforce.

Exactly. There are numerous HBCUs that have very well structured CS programs. I'd be willing to put money on the fact that those graduates don't even get a second look. Valley people are too preoccupied with the optics of having a BIG SCHOOL NAME to actually care if an employee without the school name can do the job just as well or better.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't believe this is due to any sort of racism, but rather due to the education system in general. You might consider reading the excellent paper, "Are Emily And Greg More Employable Than Lakisha And Jamal? A Field Experiment On Labor Market Discrimination": http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 My take is that if tech really, truly has no race or gender discrimination problems, that would be remarkably different tha…

It is remarkably different. The amount of Asians/South Asians in tech is very high. If there were material racism, then you wouldn't see this. I don't know anyone who wouldn't hire a smart person based on their race. I'm sure it exists in small quantities, just like everywhere else, but I believe it's much smaller in tech than any other industry. The reason why there aren't a lot of blacks and Hispanics in tech I bel…

Exactly. I wasn't aware of the decree that excluded Asians from white racism in school/work.

Given the number of Asians in tech, it appears white racism is lacking.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#163

I've been working for over 20 years in tech at 10+ different companies around the Valley, and I can count on 1 hand the number of direct coworkers that were black, and on 2 hands the number of coworkers that I indirectly worked with that were black. I don't believe this is due to any sort of racism, but rather due to the education system in general. Trying to solve the diversity issue at the hiring end, when the numb…

It's both. The sad fact is that it doesn't take very strong forces to diminish the presence of people of color in tech, just widespread ones that exist at all layers. A slight increase in resumes being passed over for phone screens. A slight preference against hiring due to nearly indescribable "culture fit" reasons. It doesn't require explicit, objective racism at any point.

It's absolutely necessary to kill the myth of tech hiring as a perfect meritocracy. It is not, it's far from it. It's a dirty and incredibly flawed process that barely even works, let alone represents any pretense of egalitarian perfection.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#164
This article is laden with obvious self serving undertones that completely overshadow any genuinely good intentions the author states. It starts with the overly dramatic, click-batey title and continues through to the very end, with multiple flaws and contradictions presented outright suggesting the author is high on his own agenda and has long since abandoned measured rational for populist rhetoric.

Did anyone read his job proposal? This guy is trying to get himself some phony new role of "Diversity Engineering Manager" - an obnoxiously contrived title one would expect from "non-technical engineering management" types yet bearing a description exactly like of that of a position which has long existed in the corporate space: Human Resources. For me, the immediate reaction is to ask: precisely what form of Engineering expertise does he actually possess. I ask this not only because I've had a front row seat to the Invasion of the Middle Managers flocking to the darling tech industry as it has soared, but also from his exchanges with his senior management. He seems to agree on the merit of analyzing their hiring process from an ethnocentric perspective - but arrogantly dismisses the proposed method, makes a half hearted attempt at using some open source webpage to appease his manager and yet provides no alternative whatsoever - what kind of truly talented engineering leader proceeds this way? Perhaps a social engineer?

He expresses a strong desire to effect meaningful positive change in the under-representation of minorities in tech, yet when he is in precisely the sort of senior position to do so, he quits because...why? Because he needs some phony manager title he made up to effect change?? If so, that's most certainly only the half of it as birds of this feather constantly check their compensation statements together... He feels enthusiastic about the return of Jack Dorsey and apparently even had direct engagement and affirmation of the desire to improve diversity but because he is not earmarked as the sole owner of diversity, that means the entire company is afflicted with "unconscious, implicit racism" and in complete denial of the obvious cure that exists in the form of "Diversity ENGINEERING Manager"?? Not only is this a hopelessly arrogant perspective, it's actually quite evil. This guy is trying to bully his mediocre existence into a position of power and is willing to use any form of inflammatory rhetoric to do so. While I'm sure his groundbreaking ideas of perceived racism surveys and hiring at coding camps may have marginal effect on the under-representation of minorities at Twitter, I'm all but certain his statistics of minority representation as college grads and at other firms are way off - and serve as a warning sign that experimenter bias will always hinder his ability to reach truth in anything.

This guy is a parasitic cancer with a self serving agenda and any firm thinking of hiring him should consider what form his potential retribution will be if they don't meet his absurd demands. What's most ironic is that people like this are never self starters - their attribution of everything to external factors out of their control can only ever exist as a parasitic cog in the corporate wheel where they can draw abundant sustenance in exchange for providing marginal productive value, if any at all (and most likely negative value when you think of it). Ultimately, the fact that he can't just take his ball and go home but must instead shit all over the game means that he'll either have to learn to open his mind, or find a new gig.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#165

I've been working for over 20 years in tech at 10+ different companies around the Valley, and I can count on 1 hand the number of direct coworkers that were black, and on 2 hands the number of coworkers that I indirectly worked with that were black. I don't believe this is due to any sort of racism, but rather due to the education system in general. Trying to solve the diversity issue at the hiring end, when the numb…

If you're in NYC you can check out the Academy for Software Engineering, a cs focused high school. We do mentorship there via iMentor. There's also CSNYC.org which works to support cs education programs to get spread within the school system and to train more teachers on cs topics

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#166
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a basic fork in logic. Blacks are observably, measurably treated worse than whites by police and courts. There can only be two causes for this: 1. The system is unjust due to institutional racism. 2. Blacks are inherently more violent and criminal than whites. You seem to be arguing the latter.

Their entire argument is a cognitive dissonance with the facts. Even with non-violent drug use, rates are similar across all races yet blacks are measurably discriminated against in searches, arrests, and sentencing.

Rates for what? Rates for murder and violent crime are not similar across all races. They vary significantly. In order (from highest to lowest) they tend to be as follows: Black, Hispanic, White, Asian. Coincidentally (or not), IQ tends to follow the same pattern, from lowest to highest.

Just looking at murder, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008. Looking at offenders per 100,000, it is 34.4 for blacks versus 4.5 for whites. http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

There have been many studies, not just from the arrest, sentencing, and imprisonment side. There are studies in which random people are polled and asked whether they have been victimized. It is not poverty alone. Homicide among impoverished whites is nowhere near the levels seen among blacks.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is remarkably different. The amount of Asians/South Asians in tech is very high. If there were material racism, then you wouldn't see this. I don't know anyone who wouldn't hire a smart person based on their race. I'm sure it exists in small quantities, just like everywhere else, but I believe it's much smaller in tech than any other industry. The reason why there aren't a lot of blacks and Hispanics in tech I bel…

Exactly. I wasn't aware of the decree that excluded Asians from white racism in school/work. Given the number of Asians in tech, it appears white racism is lacking.

This is a remarkably facile understanding of racism, one that ignores both the model minority phenomenon as well as the fact that Asians are significantly underrepresented in management positions in the tech industry [1].

1. http://www.npr.org/2015/05/17/407478606/often-employees-rare...

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I wasn't aware of the decree that excluded Asians from white racism in school/work. Given the number of Asians in tech, it appears white racism is lacking.

This is a remarkably facile understanding of racism, one that ignores both the model minority phenomenon as well as the fact that Asians are significantly underrepresented in management positions in the tech industry [1]. 1. http://www.npr.org/2015/05/17/407478606/often-employees-rare...

Well, then I should have said Indians.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#169
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In point of fact, an African-American guy and a white guy from the same neighborhood and school will have had different experiences growing up. For example, the white guy probably never had the cops called on him for wandering down a dark street wearing a hoodie. He probably also got more job interviews, if his name sounds white and his friend's doesn't. These experiences will have shaped the two men differently. Tha…

>In point of fact, an African-American guy and a white guy from the same neighborhood and school will have had different experiences growing up. The differences between their experiences is smaller than the differences between that black individual (sidenote: I was recently told by a black guy that African American is worse than black when used as an identifier) and someone of the same race who grew up in a significa…

RE your side note - in the preface to a study on ethnic politics in America, the authors of the study explain why they use the demographic terms they do. Latino, Asian-American, and black. Their data showed that there was a 1.1% difference of preference in Americans of African descent between being identified as black or African American. They also pointed out that black Americans have been discriminated based on their color, rather than their nationality throughout all of American history, and that's unique to blacks, and is the best identifier for that culture group/identity.

The study is in "Can We All Get Along", by McClain and Stewart. Really interesting book that does a good job of making you think.

Re: Twitter's only black engineer in leadership quits

#170

Removing barriers to particular ethnicities in hiring? Great. Making it clear in marketing and outreach that all ethnicities are welcomed and encouraged? Great. Establishing a quota of X % of employees should be a certain race? Uh... okay. Should asians be turned down from a job because they've hit the asian quota and need more blacks? I didn't realize companies practiced affirmative action like this.

I'm pretty sure they don't. There are PRs campaigns saying they would like to get closer to those quotas, but I don't think any engineering management is actually going to let their interview process be changed. At companies I've worked at I've seen the leadership cheerleading race & gender diversity, but not interfering with engineering management's hiring practices. I assume that the leadership is just playing the…

Google actually changed their policy: http://www.businessinsider.com.au/google-hiring-non-graduate...
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