The model minority is losing patience • Hacker News Board

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#161

Post by dudul » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 9:00 PM UTC

fennecfoxen wrote: post #44

crimsonalucard wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The title may refer asians as a minority. However, while asians definitely aren't a minority in the context of the world, they still are a minority in the context of the united states and Europe. All of that, however, is completely irrelevant of the issue. What is the issue? Vanity? No. The issue is racism. When a race delivers quantitative metrics that beats other races out of the water, what does it mean? When blac…

> All races are NOT equal. Political correctness states that although races look different all races are equal. If we want to be all philosophical about it we'd say that people of all races must be equal under the law or that they are all endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights or something like that.

> all races must be equal under the law

So... the opposite of affirmative actions, right?

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#162

Post by dropit_sphere » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 9:10 PM UTC

chiaro wrote: post #107

golemotron wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very hard to believe that this redefinition of the word racism was done innocently. On its face racism is act of distinguishing people by race for favor or disfavor. When it is redefined as it has been in the humanities it leaves a vacuum. There's no longer a word for the concept that racism originally referred to.

It's not taking anything away--both definitions are valid and commonly used. It's just up to the pair of you to realize you're talking past each other. She'd probably have no trouble agreeing that white people can be the target of bigotry just as you'd agree that white people are rarely at the pointy end of broader systemic injustices, at least in this society. Much as it may be fun, I'd caution against attributing i…

There needn't be a conspiracy. An evolved motte-and-bailey strategy is bad enough as it is.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#163

Post by dikdik » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 9:19 PM UTC

dnautics wrote: post #117

rsy96 wrote: post #80

One reason that Asians outperform other racial groups in the United States is overlooked in the article: the difficulty of immigration. Most whites and blacks are born within the US, and Hispanics are either born or move into the US by simply crossing a land border. For Asians to come to the US, they have to cross the Pacific Ocean. In order to do that, they have to be either rich (at least middle class), highly educ…

I'm a fifth generation Asian American and my family came to Hawaii as plantation workers, my father was the first in the family to go to college, and made captain in the US Navy. Ironically in his civilian (government) job his performance reviews can back as "no leadership potential" despite that in his military job he led the team that implemented the first digital inventory for the navy...

I think the trope of asian culture promoting "shyness" and respect for authority has some bearing on this, but not in the way the article mentioned.

While many asians may have these characteristics, it's not that it makes them unfit to lead it is more about the promoting managers looking for the wrong signals. We see similar trends with introverts and women, no? They don't fit the extroverted, authoritative, direct management style that is deemed "successful", but is often not optimal.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#164

Post by 9872 » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 9:23 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #159

9872 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ad hominem would be discrediting your story because you don't have a brain. I'm just amusedly pointing out that the logical conclusion of your story is simply that you don't have one. Offensiveness doesn't come into the picture.

Many of your comments have been breaking the HN guidelines. We ban accounts that do this. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

I have no interest in following those guidelines. A threat only works if the execution of the threat is worse than the thing I'm being coerced into doing.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#165

Post by ap22213 » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 9:39 PM UTC

Roewaid213 wrote: post #152

ap22213 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a white in tech, I sometimes sense that I'm being discriminated against by Asian / Asian-American hiring managers. For instance, I've never been offered a position by an Asian, whereas I'm rarely not offered a position by a non-Asian. What kind of concerns me is that so many of the big tech companies have disproportionately more Asians, and many Asians cultures are known to be as racist or more racist. Unlike Amer…

This is horribly anecdotal, since asian-american managers actually tend to be less likely to hire other asians, out of fear of looking like they are practicing favoritism toward "their own." And your bias is probably one reason for why they constantly feel so overly self-conscious about that as well

Interesting perspective. I had no idea that this was a concern.

But, I can certainly relate. As someone who is often involved in hiring, I feel a similar pressure. I try very hard to be objective. But, in order to feel comfortable with my decisions, I (hopefully only slightly) err towards over-hiring minorities and women.

Not that this presents much difficulty these days - it's hard enough to find qualified (and interested) candidates, in general.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#166

Post by dang » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 10:19 PM UTC

9872 wrote: post #164

dang wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of your comments have been breaking the HN guidelines. We ban accounts that do this. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

I have no interest in following those guidelines. A threat only works if the execution of the threat is worse than the thing I'm being coerced into doing.

> I have no interest in following [the] guidelines

Ok, we've banned this account.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#167

Post by jackpirate » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 11:03 PM UTC

omonra wrote: post #158

memonkey wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Is going to jail based on your race suffering more or less than not getting into Harvard because of your race? I tend to agree with OP's comment, but one important aspect is left out when talking about things like this: Class.

I'd like to call out your casual mentioning of someone's race being responsible for them going to jail. That's not really what happens - rather that someone breaks the law and goes to jail. I'm not aware of law-abiding members of any race going to jail (while the article demonstrates that Asians who do everything same as whites or blacks have no chance of getting into Harvard).

Everyone breaks the law. Some people get disproportionate punishment. So while your statement is true, it entirely misses the point.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#168

Post by nv-vn » Sat, Oct 03, 2015, 11:28 PM UTC

I find it very ironic that the people who created affirmative action are now realizing how dumb it actually is in practice.

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#169

Post by klipt » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 12:22 AM UTC

9872 wrote: post #121

wozniacki wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but 20% of those admitted were Asian American, for the class of 2019, in a country where less than 5%, self-identify as Asian-American.[1][2] https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics [1] http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/06/how-to-... [2] http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/06/how-to-...

Harvard accepts students from all over the world. Over 50% of the world is Asian.

Only 12% of admitted students are from outside the US. Harvard clearly favors US applicants.

https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics

Re: The model minority is losing patience

#170

Post by damagedcake » Sun, Oct 04, 2015, 12:39 AM UTC

chiaro wrote: post #63

golemotron wrote: post #6

I was talking to someone just out of college the other day and she was adamant that reverse racism doesn't exist. To her it isn't racism unless it happens to a group lower in a power ordering. The exact position of groups in that ordering wasn't clear but it was clear that Asians were higher than other groups. Identity politics is a very dehumanizing philosophy. It tells us that we must be seen through a label we can…

That's just a misunderstanding over the definition. Racism as a subject of study in the humanities refers to these societal power structures, and it was this definition and usage she was probably cleaving to. The world would definitely be a better if we didn't recognize labels, but since I kind of hit the trifecta as far as race, gender etc goes, I fit into society just fine. Those who feel marginalised by society fo…

Not that I completely disagree; but the problem with this definition, on a practical level, is that it seems to cause more harm than good. Identity politics have prevented our country from having an actual conversation on race since those of us in the majority are effectively not allowed into the conversation. So if there are two sides of an issue and one side is not allowed in the discussion then there is . . . no discussion.