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Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

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Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#151

Post by justizin »

cousin_it wrote: post #140
rayiner wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, this is the economic assumption - folks are greedy and will exploit undervalued resources. Except that's not what history shows us. Economics didn't free the slaves. Guns did. Economics didn't end segregation in housing and education. Bitter, expensive litigation did.[1] Economics didn't make gay marriage legal. Waging a cultural war on homophobes until it became social suicide in most circles to be one did th…

Most countries around the world abolished slavery peacefully.

> Most countries around the world abolished slavery peacefully.

[citation needed]

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#152

Post by dmansen »

nailer wrote: post #61
dmansen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you should try reading about feminism sometime

Maybe they just read, say, Dworkin, on how all heterosexual sex is rape? Pretending people who disagree with political movements just need to understand those movements more is presumptuous.

i think it's valid to tell people to educate themselves when they're saying incorrect things. also applies to you, see other replies

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#153

Post by astazangasta »

saiya-jin wrote: post #134
astazangasta wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes an equivalence between men and women that doesn't exist here. If both sides were equally put-upon, it'd be neutral to call for both sides to shut up. When one side has a clear advantage, it is not.

as a non-US, these topics are beyond ridiculous to me. some initial disclaimer - i am not very fond of usual loud-screaming-around feminists... nobody is for that matter, not even my fiancee. if I ever witnessed any kind of discrimination in my 11 year long career, in 3 different countries, working for... 7 employers? but many more customers, if was POSITIVE discrimination against women. they were strongly welcomed i…

I don't know where you live, but the US is incredibly backwards in many ways. Odds are you've had a female prime minister, you have paid maternity leave, etc. Yell at us about overcorrection when we can say the same.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#154

Post by electronvolt »

rayiner wrote: post #131
yummyfajitas wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The assumption that racism and sexism result in elastic deformation of society that will go away as soon as you remove whatever force is warping it. Yes, this is the economic assumption - folks are greedy and will exploit undervalued resources. I don't think history bears that out. Society is a soft ductile metal. If you bend it, it'll stay bent. This ignores the history of various oppressed groups who unbent themsel…

> Yes, this is the economic assumption - folks are greedy and will exploit undervalued resources. Except that's not what history shows us. Economics didn't free the slaves. Guns did. Economics didn't end segregation in housing and education. Bitter, expensive litigation did.[1] Economics didn't make gay marriage legal. Waging a cultural war on homophobes until it became social suicide in most circles to be one did th…

> Economics didn't make gay marriage legal. Waging a cultural war on homophobes until it became social suicide in most circles to be one did that.

And even that movement began with drag queens throwing bricks at cops.[0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#155

Post by justizin »

traverseda wrote: post #93
astazangasta wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes an equivalence between men and women that doesn't exist here. If both sides were equally put-upon, it'd be neutral to call for both sides to shut up. When one side has a clear advantage, it is not.

>When one side has a clear advantage, it is not. I suspect this is the big difference driving a lot of this debate. You see a clear advantage, I see a lot of small advantages in specific situations, along with personal preferences. To a lot of us, it's not a clear advantage. I definitely make more money, but I'm much more likely to commit suicide or become homeless. I'm a lot more likely to be injured on the job.

Right, and I mean, /sure/ the slaves don't have freedom, but they also don't have to pay bills and stuff. It pretty much washes out.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#156

Post by olewhalehunter »

FredNatural wrote: post #137
stcredzero wrote: post #88

The author is a friend of mine. What I say below is something I've discussed with her. I think the last great frontier for humanity's "waking up from history" is awareness of group psychology, particularly the psychology of the "other." Ironically, as noted by GCP Grey, widespread access to the Internet has actually made such group psychology worse . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc One of the big problems…

Mindfulness is on The Path. The Middle Way seems to support the most rapid passage on this path. At the extremes of this path friction slows everything down to a crawl. At the extremes hate becomes recursive. -YMMV

"If you see the Buddha in the road, kill him. Take off his robes and wear them: now you are the Buddha and must defend yourself against hordes of challengers like that guy in Afro Samurai."

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#157

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

Puts wrote: post #60
kohanz wrote: post #6

> There had been interest, but one of the committers had dismissed the idea out of hand because a woman had proposed it. It blows my mind that this stuff still happens. In the OSS world of all places. I can't even compute how someone can apply such "logic".

I think we need to start recognizing that this is just the sign of low intelligence. You can not argue with people who are judgmental. It's just like arguing with a drunk. Whatever you say is just waste of time and energy and by even going in to the discussion you let them drag you down to their level.

I've known many otherwise-smart people who are racist and sexist as fuck, usually due to shitty upbringing or radicalization.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#158

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #110
rayiner wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "shut up and build things" position embodies the tacit assumption that the world naturally pushes itself to an equillibrium that is fair and just. The assumption that racism and sexism result in elastic deformation of society that will go away as soon as you remove whatever force is warping it. I don't think history bears that out. Society is a soft ductile metal. If you bend it, it'll stay bent. You have to hamm…

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#159

Post by cousin_it »

justizin wrote: post #151
cousin_it wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries around the world abolished slavery peacefully.

> Most countries around the world abolished slavery peacefully. [citation needed]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline

From a quick skim, the US and Haiti seem to be the only non-peaceful abolitions out of hundreds.

Re: Okay, Feminism, It’s Time We Had a Talk About Empathy (2013)

#160

Post by eseehausen »

Balgair wrote: post #149
stcredzero wrote: post #88

The author is a friend of mine. What I say below is something I've discussed with her. I think the last great frontier for humanity's "waking up from history" is awareness of group psychology, particularly the psychology of the "other." Ironically, as noted by GCP Grey, widespread access to the Internet has actually made such group psychology worse . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc One of the big problems…

I agree with the initial thesis and would go so far as to say two of the top functions of 'education' are to create empathy for others and to create self-respect. However, I don't believe that the internet has made things worse; rather it has just uncovered what was already there. Also, trying to argue that our species reverts to the base programming is specious. If that were true, polygamy and murder would be the ru…

> rather it has just uncovered what was already there

Exactly! One of the interesting things that's happened is group discussions that would've taken place in private now often happen in very public places. Imagine, for instance, who would have access to the equivalent of Hacker News 100 years ago. Now, for better or worse, the community's discussions are out there and available for analysis not only by its own members but also interested outsiders.

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