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Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

blogs.technet.com

151–160 of 221 posts

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#151

Please give us something that doesn't require PowerShell, since PowerShell never just works. Just look at the ridiculous bullshit that you have to deal with when you want to use Chocolatey (from the Chocolatey install guide): Note: You must have your execution policy set to unrestricted (or at least in bypass) for this to work (Set-ExecutionPolicy Unrestricted). There have been reports that RemoteSigned is enough for…

Bash is oudated. PowerShell is new.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#152
post #137
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

runas is more of a su analogy than a sudo one.

I disagree, the -u option for sudo gives you nearly identical functionality.

The reason su is a better runas analogy than sudo is that it has a similar scope and similar purpose.

While it does overlap su/runas functionality, sudo has a much larger superset of features and policy configuration that su and runas simply don't have.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#153

Perhaps I missed it, but the article doesn't mention this in any way: Windows ABSOLUTELY needs a way to go from 'Fresh Install' to 'Fully upgraded' with minimal interaction. Linux can do this: run `apt-get dist-upgrade` in Ubuntu, and you get all of the most recent updates. However, in Windows, you install 3 updates, restart, install 5 updates, restart, install 110 updates, restart....

One of the core issues with breaking this pattern is that you're installing a new feature on this reboot, then installing all of its patches on the next reboot. So you install 186 updates on a fresh install. This includes .NET 4.5 (or 4.5.1 or 4.5.2), and requires a reboot. Now you're done right? You just installed 168 updates, how many updates can there be? On your next reboot, you get another 60 updates, of which 2…

You can skip maybe half of this by installing the Service Pack manually right away. It still sucks, but not quite as much.

No idea why Windows insists on installing individual updates before the Service Pack that includes them all anyways...

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#154
post #43
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the one with history going back more than an hour, and tab completions on anything except files in `pwd`.

Try https://github.com/lzybkr/PSReadLine - included in Windows 10 now.

Hey, do you have an announcement somewhere about it being included in 10? Congratulations, at any rate.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#155
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is application dependency management in windows normally a problem? Apart from the odd runtime, I expect Windows applications to be pretty much self contained, and not dependent on any system-wide libraries (which is a huge benefit I think). For development it's a different story, there you can have several levels of dependencies, but there NuGet at least appears at least as powerful as similar options on other platf…

> Is application dependency management in windows normally a problem? It has its own name. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DLL_Hell

DLL hell certainly used to be a big issue in Windows. But I disagree that it remains a major factor; Windows apps are increasingly bundled and Windows system functions that used to be the cause of these issues, like DirectX, are packaged as redistributables that allow side-by-side installs.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#156

Please give us something that doesn't require PowerShell, since PowerShell never just works. Just look at the ridiculous bullshit that you have to deal with when you want to use Chocolatey (from the Chocolatey install guide): Note: You must have your execution policy set to unrestricted (or at least in bypass) for this to work (Set-ExecutionPolicy Unrestricted). There have been reports that RemoteSigned is enough for…

> PowerShell never just works. That statement is a bit much. I agree the default execution policy is annoying, but can you blame MS for being a little overzealous given their history? Some aspects of Powershell are actually pretty nice. Ever want to use a real hashmap in bash for example? Or easy JSON construction/manipulation without hacks like jq? PS has all that.

I have had so many people tell me how fantastic PowerShell is. Not a single one of them was ever a *nix user. PowerShell is getting better with a tab completion of sorts but it is still a headache to figure out commands without web search. I try to force myself to use PowerShell as often as possible, but continuously find myself going back to a GUI. I have the opposite problem when using Linux.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#157

Oh, wow. Please, can I get a decent command line now?

you can get conemu

I really like cmder (http://gooseberrycreative.com/cmder/) which is a wrapper to conemu + clink (which adds a bunch of nice enhancements to the command line).

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that was decent work. Good job - really accurate.

I'm going thru the process as we speak. :)

I use the powershell script from the packer winrm project.

it's ugly as sin and requires many many reboots (and is slow as fuck) but at least it gets them all installed.

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#159
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this seems like it should be pretty straightforward (I'm sure it is harder than it seems, but still). Set a flag that persists through multiple reboots that says "after Windows loads, if there are updates, apply them and reboot, repeat, otherwise unset the flag".

Fun fact: I helped tweak up a Powershell script that does this exact thing: https://github.com/tomswartz07/packer-windows/blob/master/sc...

I owe you a reasonable beverage of your choosing. Please redeem anytime you're in melbourne.au :)

Re: Introducing PackageManagement in Windows 10

#160

Perhaps I missed it, but the article doesn't mention this in any way: Windows ABSOLUTELY needs a way to go from 'Fresh Install' to 'Fully upgraded' with minimal interaction. Linux can do this: run `apt-get dist-upgrade` in Ubuntu, and you get all of the most recent updates. However, in Windows, you install 3 updates, restart, install 5 updates, restart, install 110 updates, restart....

What I really don't understand is why Windows Update takes so long to apply each update. I wouldn't mind 200 updates and a couple of reboots if it only took 10 minutes to go through them.

In most Linux distributions, an update simply unzips a tarball somewhere and runs some bash scripts. Unless it's a very large package, each update usually only takes a fraction of a second on SSD, and maybe few seconds on HDD.

Windows, on the other hand, often takes minutes installing each update. Going from freshly-installed to fully-updated can easily take several hours, even on an i7 with SSD and a very fast connection (so the download speed is not a factor). It's even worse on an older computer; I've seen a smallish .NET update taking over 10 minutes to finish, and there were several such updates. What the hell is it doing behind the scenes that takes so much time?

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