Earlier quoted context omitted.
> banning abortion means forcing a mother to feed and care for another person (even if you consider a fetus a person). There's a difference between murdering a person and being forced to feed him. So assuming for this argument that a fetus is a person, an abortion would be akin to murder. Being forced to care for the person would be akin to being forced to raise him. Libertarians who believe fetuses are persons are a…
> Being forced to care for the person would be akin to being forced to raise him. Until the baby is born, it does depend entirely on the mother's resources. It literally pulls energy out of her blood stream. Now, I don't think fetuses are people, but if you believe they are then you have to admit that for the duration of the pregnancy the mother is compelled to feed and provide for that "person."
Rand Paul Pledges to Immediately End NSA Mass Surveillance If Elected President
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Re: Rand Paul Pledges to Immediately End NSA Mass Surveillance If Elected President
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
And against gay marriage, too! His defenders will claim that although he does not like it, he will still allow it. But that's not true either, because he will leave it to the states to decide (and about half of them will decide to ban it). Private prisons? Have at it. Urban poverty? Let the charities deal with it. Access to abortion? Similar response to gay marriage. The only reason he's popular on the internet is be…
What happens if the President hates abortion and gay marriage (serious question)? Does he have any power to repeal/overturn, other than having access to the bully pulpit? It's not like he can get elected and say "OK gay marriage is over now", which he could do to the NSA (whether he will is certainly up for debate).
Re: Rand Paul Pledges to Immediately End NSA Mass Surveillance If Elected President
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
I remember when Ron Paul ran in the primaries, and in one of the first debates from 2011 I believe, they asked the Republican candidates whether they support a stronger Patriot Act or not. Like all the other 4 or 5 other candidates tried to out-match each other in how much stronger they would like the Patriot Act and other such laws to be. Ron Paul? He was the only one who said he would do away with it. Full stop. If…
> I believe, they asked the Republican candidates whether they support a stronger Patriot Act or not. Like all the other 4 or 5 other candidates tried to out-match each other in how much stronger they would like the Patriot Act and other such laws to be. It's worth thinking about the significance of that. These guys aren't doing it because it's wildly unpopular with voters.
but one could argue that it's so popular with voters due to fear mongering, the labeling of everyday criminals as 'terrorists', and the national call to arms every few weeks when some psycho (undoubtedly referred to incorrectly as a terrorist) shoots his way through somewhere.
At what stop in this twisted feedback loop are we going to place blame? It seems pretty naive to put the blame on the scared (and voting) public.
Re: Rand Paul Pledges to Immediately End NSA Mass Surveillance If Elected President
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Rand_Paul.htm Some of his positions: Life begins at conception. Endorsed Liberty Candidate: End the Federal Reserve. Women won the "war on women": they're no longer downtrodden. Punishing the rich means the poor lose their jobs. Blacks look who's in prison & conclude cops out to get them. EPA regulations cost $15 trillion in 2012. Exit the UN; maintain US sovereignty. Defund, repeal,…
How is social security not a ponzi scheme? The returns generated depend on finding new investors in the scheme, if current investors pull out the scheme cannot return promised benefits to current investors. This is pretty much the precise definition of a ponzi scheme and why the scheme faces certain bankruptcy with out a significant rise in births.
Or we could just remove the cap for social security tax.
Re: Rand Paul Pledges to Immediately End NSA Mass Surveillance If Elected President
#155Re: Rand Paul Pledges to Immediately End NSA Mass Surveillance If Elected President
#156Yeah, and Nixon had a secret plan to end the war. Twice.
The war that was started by the Democratic Party: http://blogs.britannica.com/2009/01/2-the-vietnam-war-top-10... "President John F. Kennedy had sent military advisors and then troops into South Vietnam. After Kennedy’s assassination, what to do about the Vietnam War became a pressing matter of business for the new president, Lyndon B. Johnson." From there see the VietNam War link: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked…
Re: Rand Paul Pledges to Immediately End NSA Mass Surveillance If Elected President
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think Rand Paul is a libertarian (I was simply responding to the parent). As for abortion, even if you consider the fetus a "person," I don't see how a libertarian would make a good case for the government to force the mother to continue to sustain and provide for it. > Removing regulation over social issues from government IS a very libertarian philosophy. Delegating to the states is very different from remo…
> I don't see how a libertarian would make a good case for the government to force the mother to continue to sustain and provide for it. So all neglect laws should be removed? > The libertarian thing to do would be to ban such regulation. That requires a constitutional amendment. Those are not easy to get passed.
That was the position of Murray Rothbard [1], who was one of the major intellectual founders of modern libertarianism, particularly anarcho-capitalism. He was a founder of the Ludwig von Mises Institute. Most internet libertarians seem to be followers of his school of libertarianism (although they often do not know it...).
His book "The Ethics of Liberty" covers children in chapter 14. You can find the PDF online. There's a big chunk of chapter 14 here [2]. Here's the most relevant part:
Even from birth, the parental ownership is not
absolute but of a "trustee" or guardianship kind. In
short, every baby as soon as it is born and is
therefore no longer contained within his mother's
body possesses the right of self-ownership by virtue
of being a separate entity and a potential adult. It
must therefore be illegal and a violation of the
child's rights for a parent to aggress against his
person by mutilating, torturing, murdering him, etc.
On the other hand, the very concept of "rights" is a
"negative" one, demarcating the areas of a person's
action that no man may properly interfere with. No
man can therefore have a "right" to compel someone
to do a positive act, for in that case the
compulsion violates the right of person or property
of the individual being coerced. Thus, we may say
that a man has a right to his property (i.e., a
right not to have his property invaded), but we
cannot say that anyone has a "right" to a "living
wage," for that would mean that someone would be
coerced into providing him with such a wage, and
that would violate the property rights of the people
being coerced. As a corollary this means that, in
the free society, no man may be saddled with the
legal obligation to do anything for another, since
that would invade the former's rights; the only
legal obligation one man has to another is to
respect the other man's rights.
Applying our theory to parents and children, this
means that a parent does not have the right to
aggress against his children, but also that the
parent should not have a legal obligation to feed,
clothe, or educate his children, since such
obligations would entail positive acts coerced upon
the parent and depriving the parent of his rights.
The parent therefore may not murder or mutilate his
child, and the law properly outlaws a parent from
doing so. But the parent should have the legal right
not to feed the child, i.e., to allow it to die. The
law, therefore, may not properly compel the parent
to feed a child or to keep it alive. (Again, whether
or not a parent has a moral rather than a legally
enforceable obligation to keep his child alive is a
completely separate question.) This rule allows us
to solve such vexing questions as: should a parent
have the right to allow a deformed baby to die
(e.g., by not feeding it)? The answer is of course
yes, following a fortiori from the larger right to
allow any baby, whether deformed or not, to die.
(Though, as we shall see below, in a libertarian
society the existence of a free baby market will
bring such "neglect" down to a minimum.)
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_RothbardRe: Rand Paul Pledges to Immediately End NSA Mass Surveillance If Elected President
#158Falsifying the origin of a problem you claim to intend to fix puts that claim in quite a bit of doubt.
Re: Rand Paul Pledges to Immediately End NSA Mass Surveillance If Elected President
#159Given the current field of candidates, it's pretty much Rand Paul or More-Of-The-Same. Seriously, Hillary is just Obama-term-three and Jeb... oh Lord, talk about scary .
God, it makes me sick to my stomach to sound pro Bush. I promise I don't mean it that way.
Re: Rand Paul Pledges to Immediately End NSA Mass Surveillance If Elected President
#160Great, the man also wants to destroy public funding of science. I understand that that is his opinion, but well fuck that. I want to be a scientist and need REUs. Science is more important than capitalism. Capitalism has failed the world. edit: that last sentence was a bit much, I'll admit.
Very little actual good and a lot of bad science has come from public funding.