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Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

justice.gov

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Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#151

Post by pluma »

andrewksl wrote: post #44
blowski wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could argue (though don't really agree) that Andrus Nomm was a threat in the same way as Bernie Madoff. Neither was running around shooting people or starting fires. The same could be said for elderly war criminals. There are situations in which it is right to send people to prison without them posing an active and dangerous threat. Whether this in one of those situations is more arguable.

> There are situations in which it is right to send people to prison without them posing an active and dangerous threat Do these situations exist only when we consider punishment a valid reason for imprisonment? Don't get me wrong; Bernie Madoff being free and enjoying life wouldn't sit right with me, but you have to wonder if locking people away as retribution really benefits tax-paying, law-abiding citizens.

You also have to consider the cost to society locking someone away incurs. You not only remove an able-bodied worker and offload his costs of living to society, you also have to factor in the overhead of maintaining and staffing the necessary facilities.

But sadly putting people behind bars is considered a solution in itself in the US, rather than a means to an end.

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#152

Post by pluma »

geon wrote: post #76
gambiting wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if it worked the other way around.....if one day a US court got a request from Saudi Arabia asking to jail one of US citizens because they broke Saudi law on the internet(even though they have never been to Saudi Arabia). US would politely tell them to fuck off. Yet, when US does this to another country,they comply? It's disgusting.

I wish more countries had the balls to tell the US to fuck off. I wish MY country did; then we wouldn't have had the Pirate Bay Gate, where Swedish constitution was stepped all over.

Frankly, I was pretty appalled how the European countries reacted during the Snowden affair. Not just interfering with the travel of a diplomatic plane he was suspected to be on (just imagine someone did that with the Air Force One), but also keeping mum and looking the other way when he was requesting asylum after telling everyone what the US had done to their citizens (and governments).

That was the saddest display of spinelessness I've ever seen, to be honest. I never felt that ashamed of my country and the EU.

The excuses about him having to be on German soil to request asylum were especially infuriating. Considering the government's reaction thus far, it is painfully obvious Germany would receive and grant an extradition request faster than you can see "Volkssouveränität".

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#153

Post by pluma »

bhayden wrote: post #149
pluma wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I don't think of the justice system as concerning punishment at all. The primary functions to me are rehabilitation and prevention (via incapacitation). Even though my view certainly isn't representative, it seems to me that American culture is far more concerned with punishment or retribution than rehabilitation than we are in Germany. Sure, we have tabloids calling for "severe punishments" as well, but…

The prison system in the US is designed to create repeat offenders. This is because we have a lot of for-profit prisons that benefit from repeat offenders. There is no rehabilitation going on, I assure you. Quite the opposite is true.

Unsurprising, especially with how prison rape seems to be considered par for the course in the public conscience. The only thing that confuses me is how the public doesn't seem to mind, especially when it comes to young black men (who seem to be considered criminals a priori these days).

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#154

Post by pluma »

jpgvm wrote: post #79

Tbh he kinda fucked up. He waived his right to an extradition hearing in the Netherlands. I am fairly certain the Dutch court would not have let him be extradited over this bullshit. Case and point, he is the only one to be extradited successfully and only because he went of his own free will.

I'm fairly certain he talked to a lawyer before waiving his right. I know that that's what I would have done in his situation -- it's not a decision you take lightly.

I'm also fairly certain his lawyer told him that his hearing would be unlikely to result in a rejection and that complying with the US prosecution would be his best chance for the least bad outcome.

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#155

Post by psykovsky »

SebKba wrote: post #38
blowski wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it makes the issue seem like it's only a concern of angry and ignorant teenagers. While I for one would love for the current corporate capitalist model of society to be fundamentally restructured, it's not going to happen by making snide remarks on Hacker News.

It's the first thought that popped into my head... I don't exactly see how your comment helps any more than mine but that's fine.

Bread and circus... Bread and circus...

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#156

Post by cplease »

Retric wrote: post #140
cplease wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, prosecutors are governed by many rules from constitutional and statutory law as well as canons of ethics that apply to their special position. They have an obligation to promptly disclose any and all evidence they encounter favorable to the defendant. They have an obligation to drop charges at any point that it is apparent that there is no probable cause that the defendant is guilty of a crime, and not to p…

In theory all of what you said is true, in practice a prosecutors 'absolute immunity' is a rather hard hurdle to overcome. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2014/01/30/7t... PS: Absolute immunity protects from both criminal prosecution and lawsuits, so in general they can at worst be fired possibly disbarred. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_immunity

Absolute immunity is mostly a protection from civil lawsuits in personal capacity. When there is prosecutorial misconduct in a criminal case, defendants can get sanctions ranging to from dismissal with prejudice, mistrial, exclusion of evidence, to post-conviction relief depending on the severity of the misconduct. The biggest barriers are often either that the misconduct is hidden and difficult or impossible for the defendant (or really, his attorney) to discover, or that judges may decide that the misconduct was "harmless" and the defendant was not prejudiced, even in the face of blatant misconduct, when there is otherwise strong evidence.

As for the prosecutor themselves, defendants or judges can and do refer misconduct to bar associations which can and do disbar prosecutors. Judges can directly hold prosecutors in contempt and fine or jail them in extreme cases, or refer them for criminal prosecution on charges ranging from perjury, obstruction of justice, official misconduct, and criminal contempt and so on. As with any criminal cases involving criminal justice professionals, this is quite rare, but it does happen, and absolute immunity is no barrier to it.

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#157

Post by easytiger »

tomp wrote: post #41
blowski wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could argue (though don't really agree) that Andrus Nomm was a threat in the same way as Bernie Madoff. Neither was running around shooting people or starting fires. The same could be said for elderly war criminals. There are situations in which it is right to send people to prison without them posing an active and dangerous threat. Whether this in one of those situations is more arguable.

It would be really hard to argue that. Bernie Madoff was more like someone who robs banks, or e.g. ATMs (i.e. no danger to human lives, but money stolen). Megaupload didn't steal anyone's money, and while people did get content without paying for it, it's not very clear that they would pay for it if it wasn't available for free. One undermined the public's confidence in the strength, fairness and security of financia…

That's revenge, not socially progressive justice. I'm sure there is something better that could have been done with BM to help society other than put him in prison. For instance serving elderly people tea and biscuits or such

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#158

Post by tomp »

easytiger wrote: post #157
tomp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be really hard to argue that. Bernie Madoff was more like someone who robs banks, or e.g. ATMs (i.e. no danger to human lives, but money stolen). Megaupload didn't steal anyone's money, and while people did get content without paying for it, it's not very clear that they would pay for it if it wasn't available for free. One undermined the public's confidence in the strength, fairness and security of financia…

That's revenge, not socially progressive justice. I'm sure there is something better that could have been done with BM to help society other than put him in prison. For instance serving elderly people tea and biscuits or such

Well, the type of punishment is also a question of policy - I guess jail is the most common one. Btw, would you trust him around your (grand-)parents after all the fraud he's committed?

Re: Megaupload programmer goes to prison for one year

#159

Post by riskable »

tzs wrote: post #94
kaoD wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Megaupload didn't explicitly condone copyright infringement, and if I recall correctly infringing files were removed. Are my memories flawed and Megaupload ignored the copyright infringement notices, or is Megaupload the fall guy to scare everyone else?

When Megaupload received notification of an illegal file, their action depended on the type of file. If it was child porn or terrorism propaganda, they deleted the file. If it was copyright infringement, they made the specific URL that was reported stop working, but retained the file, and all other links that referred to that file continued to work. Even making the specific URLs stop working was a sore spot with Dotc…

To be fair, Megaupload used deduplication pretty extensively. So to remove the file would be to remove it from every single user whether they shared the URL or not. Any number of those users could have the right to a copy of the file in question or live in a country where copyright law just plain doesn't apply to sharing files (e.g. somewhere it's OK as long as it's down without commercial gain).

Removing just the link to the file seems reasonable to me. How do you choose which country to break the law? Removing just the link seems like the safest bet.

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