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Je Suis Charlie

charliehebdo.fr

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Re: Je Suis Charlie

#151

Post by DanBC »

ersii wrote: post #146
louwrentius wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The satire will continue, wether or not the murdering stops. For ever. Because that's the concept of freedom of speech.

Well, that's if freedom of speech continues to be allowed and accepted. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Freedom of Speech has a very bright future.

These attacks are likely to promote freedoms of speech and to slow down people calling for restrictions.

My position used to be one of asking people to consider whether the value of printing a shitty cartoon is worth causing deep offence to very many people. The murders have changed my position to supporting -with caution- the printing of these cartoons.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#152

Post by mercer »

baby wrote: post #144
discardorama wrote: post #134

308 points in 2 hours and 121 comments... and listed at #24. Ranked below stories like: 2. 121 points, 3 hours ago , 26 comments 3. 69 points , 2 hours ago , 22 comments 5. 138 points, 4 hours ago , 33 comments 8. 80 points , 4 hours ago , 28 comments 9. 46 points , 3 hours ago , 10 comments 10. 56 points , 3 hours ago , 19 comments Looks like it's being flagged left and right. Why? What if, instead of Charlie, it wa…

I think HN is trying not to have stories like this here. I have to admit I was really curious about this community's reaction (as reddit's reaction is pretty... violent). But afterall is HN really the place to discuss such things?

I think one post as an outlet is fine, but I agree that HN is not the best place for seat-of-the-pants style outrage. I'm looking forward to quality posts written after the initial shock and outrage has subsided.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#154

Post by yodsanklai »

discardorama wrote: post #134

308 points in 2 hours and 121 comments... and listed at #24. Ranked below stories like: 2. 121 points, 3 hours ago , 26 comments 3. 69 points , 2 hours ago , 22 comments 5. 138 points, 4 hours ago , 33 comments 8. 80 points , 4 hours ago , 28 comments 9. 46 points , 3 hours ago , 10 comments 10. 56 points , 3 hours ago , 19 comments Looks like it's being flagged left and right. Why? What if, instead of Charlie, it wa…

I think it's flagged because this type of news usually doesn't lead to interesting comments. Yes, freedom of speech is important and I suppose all readers feel sad about what happened, but what can we do about it? Three uneducated, brainwashed guys decided to kill satirists that offended them by making fun of their prophet a few years ago.

The problem lies in poverty, lack of education, propaganda... it's not going to be solved overnight. I just wonder who is leading this propaganda effort and trick those kids into murdering people. Is there an "evil brain" somewhere or is it some kind of "natural phenomenon" that feeds itself?

EDIT: not sure about the downvotes. Did I say something dumb? Living in France, my interpretation of the situation is that more and more teenagers or young adults are attracted to radical islam. This concerns usually people from the poorest neighbourhoods. Most of them aren't dangerous (even though it's quite shocking to read what they have to say on social networks). Atop of this, some get recruited by islamist organisation and are led to go to Syria for instance to fight there (A few hundreds according to the French government). Others are just lost people and commit terrorist attacks on their own behalf (like Merah http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Mohammed_Merah a couple of years ago).

So one hand, we know there are islamist groups recruiting people to commit terrorist attacks, but also there's very clearly an overall rise of radical islam in France that catalyse crazy behaviours.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#155

Post by ceejayoz »

icebraining wrote: post #84
happyscrappy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that you need to have tight control of citizens if you have a significant Muslim population? Somehow the US doesn't have this problem within the Muslim community.

Somehow the US doesn't have this problem within the Muslim community. Really? What about the 2009 Fort Hood shooting, the 2010 Times Square car bombing attempt and the Boston Marathon bombings? Also, the US certainly keeps a close - often oppressive - watch over its Muslim community. This American Life had an episode about it: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/471 (See also the AP prize-winning i…

> Really? What about the 2009 Fort Hood shooting, the 2010 Times Square car bombing attempt and the Boston Marathon bombings?

If three incidents in five years is a problem, the US has a problem with every community. Timothy McVeigh killed more than all of those attacks combined.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#156

Post by vixen99 »

yodsanklai wrote: post #154
discardorama wrote: post #134

308 points in 2 hours and 121 comments... and listed at #24. Ranked below stories like: 2. 121 points, 3 hours ago , 26 comments 3. 69 points , 2 hours ago , 22 comments 5. 138 points, 4 hours ago , 33 comments 8. 80 points , 4 hours ago , 28 comments 9. 46 points , 3 hours ago , 10 comments 10. 56 points , 3 hours ago , 19 comments Looks like it's being flagged left and right. Why? What if, instead of Charlie, it wa…

I think it's flagged because this type of news usually doesn't lead to interesting comments. Yes, freedom of speech is important and I suppose all readers feel sad about what happened, but what can we do about it? Three uneducated, brainwashed guys decided to kill satirists that offended them by making fun of their prophet a few years ago. The problem lies in poverty, lack of education, propaganda... it's not going t…

Trick those kids? Seems there are a lot of kids. http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/01/what-if-these-lone-wolves-w...

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#157

Post by wyager »

meepmorp wrote: post #147
discardorama wrote: post #134

308 points in 2 hours and 121 comments... and listed at #24. Ranked below stories like: 2. 121 points, 3 hours ago , 26 comments 3. 69 points , 2 hours ago , 22 comments 5. 138 points, 4 hours ago , 33 comments 8. 80 points , 4 hours ago , 28 comments 9. 46 points , 3 hours ago , 10 comments 10. 56 points , 3 hours ago , 19 comments Looks like it's being flagged left and right. Why? What if, instead of Charlie, it wa…

> Martin Niemoller's "First they came for the Communists...." Seriously? You're making a comparison to the Nazis? Edit: It's 3 assholes with assault rifles, not a totalitarian state. Can we calibrate our references to be a bit less hysterical and hyperbolic?

He's presumably talking about free speech in general, which is most certainly under attack in a large number of authoritarian nations.

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#158

Post by julie1 »

baby wrote: post #68
hyp0 wrote: post #56

"Je n'ai pas peur des représailles. Je n'ai pas de gosses, pas de femme, pas de voiture, pas de crédit. ça fait sûrement un peu pompeux, mais je préfère mourir debout que vivre à genoux." - Charb, one of the murdered satirists "I am not afraid of retaliation. I have no kids, no wife, no car, no mortgage. It surely is a bit dramatic but I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees" - translation from http://www.re…

note that everyone is quoting Charb on this, sometimes just quoting the "I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees" that is actually him quoting someone else: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Emiliano_Zapata

weired in my old greek lessons it was already said to be the motto of Athen. http://chs.harvard.edu/CHS/article/display/3824

Maybe Zappata went to school and studied the story of Athen?

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#159

Post by vixen99 »

meapix wrote: post #150

I'm a muslim and I found most of cartoons by Charlie Hebdo funny, however the cartoon about the prophet didn't upset me at all but was not funny. It did however trigger something: this is how people actually see this religion, a bomb on a prophet's head. The reality is what makes something funny or not. Should this be the end of making funny of anything or raising questions/ideas, no. However a journalist's job is no…

It's not a journalist's job to upset people? What a strange opinion and who do you suppose should judge?

Re: Je Suis Charlie

#160

Post by vixen99 »

pierrec wrote: post #126
mercer wrote: post #64

My heart sunk as soon as I heard the terrorists were muslim extremists, as here in Holland anti-immigrant and anti-muslim feelings are very present, and these incidents are fuel on the fire of racism here. I really, really hope that people from different muslim communities speak up as well. In past incidents there was a lot of silence, usually prompted by fear (I suspect). I understand if they don't, but I hope they…

Agreed. The potential backlash against innocent French and European Muslims is one of the scariest things in these events. France is full of closeted (and not-so-closeted) islamophobic fascists, and this attack of violence against words is almost guaranteed to cause some of them to unite and multiply their aggressiveness and stupidity. It is not a good day for the Muslim world.

Perhaps this is the reason and I can't understand what the problem is myself.

http://gatesofvienna.net/2015/01/what-if-these-lone-wolves-w...

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