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Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

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Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#151

Post by mod »

rgbrenner wrote: post #147
xyahoo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand: - average life expectancy in Cuba is almost the same as the USA (and higher than Mexico, Belize, Bahamas, Brazil, etc.). - literacy rate in Cuba is higher than that in the USA - Physicians per 10,000 people: Cuba has 67, USA has 24 In the Ebola crisis, Cuba has been leading from the front.

> - Physicians per 10,000 people: Cuba has 67 2nd highest in the world, behind Monaco (70): http://kff.org/global-indicator/physicians/ For comparison: Sweden (38), UK (27), Japan (21), Canada (20) Makes you wonder if that number has any significance at all. Japan has 1/3rd the number of doctors, but the highest life expectancy in the world.

Maybe there's a cause-effect going on in Japan.

They just aren't unhealthy enough to demand more doctors?

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#152

Post by scardine »

xyahoo wrote: post #103
iandanforth wrote: post #7

I've visited Cuba on a Canadian passport. Aside from the beautiful beaches the thing that struck me most was the desperate poverty of people living in shacks outside the 5 star resorts. While I hesitate to predict that this change will be all for the good, I do believe that the poorest in Cuba will benefit significantly from increased trade.

On the other hand: - average life expectancy in Cuba is almost the same as the USA (and higher than Mexico, Belize, Bahamas, Brazil, etc.). - literacy rate in Cuba is higher than that in the USA - Physicians per 10,000 people: Cuba has 67, USA has 24 In the Ebola crisis, Cuba has been leading from the front.

I highly recommend reading "Guide to the Perfect Latin American Idiot" which explain how dictatorships can pick a handful of indicators and elevate them to first-world levels while still making everybody's life miserable.

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Perfect-Latin-American-Idiot/pro...

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#153

Post by tim333 »

mathattack wrote: post #47
iandanforth wrote: post #7

I've visited Cuba on a Canadian passport. Aside from the beautiful beaches the thing that struck me most was the desperate poverty of people living in shacks outside the 5 star resorts. While I hesitate to predict that this change will be all for the good, I do believe that the poorest in Cuba will benefit significantly from increased trade.

When you start from such a low base, there is enormous room for growth. The question is what can they export? Cigars? Medical personnel?

It would be easy to increase tourism which would bring in foreign currency in a similar manner to exports. Just dropping the restrictions on US tourists visiting and on Cuban locals being able to run shops, restaurants and lodgings would probably pretty much double GNP.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#154

Post by avar »

pdeuchler wrote: post #132
xyahoo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand: - average life expectancy in Cuba is almost the same as the USA (and higher than Mexico, Belize, Bahamas, Brazil, etc.). - literacy rate in Cuba is higher than that in the USA - Physicians per 10,000 people: Cuba has 67, USA has 24 In the Ebola crisis, Cuba has been leading from the front.

Comparing statistics from small, homogeneous populations to statistics from larger, heterogeneous populations is fraught with peril. Doubly so for metrics on education and health. (I like to call this the Scandinavian Fallacy) As engineers we would never compare uptime statistics from a small, niche startup serving a couple thousand people to uptime statistics from, say, Google. Why do we immediately ignore these pri…

What does the heterogeneous populations of the US have to do with it? Maybe when it comes to life expectancy you're right, because genetics is a large factor in that. But when it comes to literacy rate and the proportion of physicians that's entirely down to government policy.

Do you really think the US couldn't beat Cuba on those metrics if they decided spending money on those topics was more important than spending money on the military?

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#155

Post by philwelch »

willholloway wrote: post #91
glup wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the lasting myths emerging from American rhetoric is that Cuba is starting from a low base. In fact the per capita GDP (as well as quality of life) is approximately on par with Panama and far exceeds the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Jamaica, and Nicaragua. Tourism will remain the major source of foreign currency, but I think this change will lead to further development in pharmaceuticals and telecom.

Cubans enjoy greater economic and medical security under socialism than their counterparts in capitalist neighboring countries, even without subsidies from Russia and even with a strict embargo with the US. The country is surprisingly politically free for a tiny nation facing an existential threat from a hostile super power that has invaded, attempted to assassinate it's leader, and funded militants dead set on viole…

If Cuba is such a success story, why do they have to force their people to stay and why do people risk their lives to escape and defect to the United States anyway?

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#156

Post by hughw »

eCa wrote: post #117
hughw wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally?

Webster's: "Since some people take sense 2 to be the opposite of sense 1, it has been frequently criticized as a misuse. Instead, the use is pure hyperbole intended to gain emphasis, but it often appears in contexts where no additional emphasis is necessary." [1] [1] http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally

Thank you for looking that up and providing the reference. The M-W argument is flawed when the bit that "literally" modifies already is hyperbole. "Abuse of language sends me through the roof" is hyperbole. "Abuse of language literally sends me through the roof" is just ridiculous.

(Edited to clarify)

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#157

Post by Someone »

ska wrote: post #133
penprog wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exiles who left the country. If you were to speak to elderly Cubans who fled they would tell you about how they all had their possessions taken from them.

Any reason to expect they have a stronger or more likely to succeed claim than, say, the Japanese-American families whose possessions were taken from them in WW2?

I guess this will partly depend on the sentiment of the public. If you look at retributions for damage in World War Two, one sees that even cases where people _sold_ items to German citizens (possibly under duress, but after decades, and with many archives destroyed in the war, that is hard to prove in some cases) that were settled in the fifties or sixties got reopened decades later.

And according to Wikipedia, Japanese Americans did get retributions under Reagan (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_reparations#United_States) How much or for what, I wouldn't know.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#158

Post by scardine »

valarauca1 wrote: post #63
johnward wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding, as a non cigar smoker, is that the quality of Cubans has decreased and they are only popular because of illegality of them.

As a larger cigar smoker. This is largely marketing from non-Cuban companies. While a lot of Caribbean tobacco is very very good, Cubans are the best without question. And this isn't so much like wine where experts fail to recognize quality in double blinds. A proper cuban cigar has a very distinct veining pattern, and far more almost oily texture. You can tell by touch alone with little training. Seasoned critics ca…

Brazilian tobacco tastes good, but leaves are not spotless like in Cuba, so Brazilian cigar makers have to import them just for the "capa" layer (the external layer in cigars). Many countries do the same.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#159

Post by [deleted] »

mod wrote: post #151
rgbrenner wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Physicians per 10,000 people: Cuba has 67 2nd highest in the world, behind Monaco (70): http://kff.org/global-indicator/physicians/ For comparison: Sweden (38), UK (27), Japan (21), Canada (20) Makes you wonder if that number has any significance at all. Japan has 1/3rd the number of doctors, but the highest life expectancy in the world.

Maybe there's a cause-effect going on in Japan. They just aren't unhealthy enough to demand more doctors?

[deleted]

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#160

Post by tim333 »

refurb wrote: post #104
willholloway wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cubans enjoy greater economic and medical security under socialism than their counterparts in capitalist neighboring countries, even without subsidies from Russia and even with a strict embargo with the US. The country is surprisingly politically free for a tiny nation facing an existential threat from a hostile super power that has invaded, attempted to assassinate it's leader, and funded militants dead set on viole…

Cuba is a success story for socialism, and that is why US policy has sought to punish it, and to make it fail. I don't think your argument is supported by any of the facts.[1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba#Contempora...

Indeed, I don't think the communist government would remain in power long if they ever had a free election. When I was there I was struck by people saying how hard it was and how they had to get by on about US$2 a week - this was a while back now.
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