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Yahoo Mail moving to React

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Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#151

Post by woah »

romaniv wrote: post #120
mygreetings wrote: post #9

Little bit off topic but is there anyone like me in community having a problem with liking javascript? I have worked with javascript for years but it was always for DOM manipulation. When it comes to building an app with javascript, i feel like it is too fragile to depend on. Anyone can help me to get rid of this feeling?

Same here, to a greater extent. Why? At the highest level, because it's a language that was chosen based on a whim (not merit) and is now being extensively worked on and showed down everyone's throats. I like languages, plural. I like new languages. I like to have a choice. (And no, I cannot "simply chose something else" if I have to work with people who say every other choice is invalid by default . And yes, this is…

Are you kidding me? Source maps allow you to debug preprocessed as well as minified code. This allows seamless integration of multiple languages into the same ecosystem, libraries, etc.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#152

Post by oceanstone »

meowface wrote: post #146
oceanstone wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The runtime performance is already very good and continually getting better Have you checked out the Computer Benchmarks Game? Here are some benchmarks they provide, comparing the JavaScript V8 to Python [1], Ruby [2], and PHP [3]. Looking at statistics such as these, I'm left thinking, "1. This is awesome! 2. Is there something about these other languages that prevents V8-like performance, or is this more a matter…

V8 does precompilation to native code and JIT optimization, which can typically turn numerical computations into efficient, and often highly optimized, machine code. These benchmarks seem to primarily be testing algorithms which require a lot of numerical computation and can take advantage of Javascript's typed arrays, which V8 is designed specifically to optimize. A somewhat more fair comparison would be V8 vs. PyPy…

> I also imagine (though am mostly speculating) that a benchmark involving a full-stack frontend framework like Angular or Ember, with hundreds or thousands of JS objects and lots of DOM manipulation, should put V8's performance a bit closer to CPython

Interesting idea! How would we make a version of the benchmark for CPython though?

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#154

Post by meowface »

oceanstone wrote: post #145
bad_user wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not an objective comparison, since Javascript has been optimized to deal with arrays and numbers, as that's one main use-case that people have in the browser. Take a look at the source code and tell me if that's the kind of code that you write.

> That's not an objective comparison, since Javascript has been optimized to deal with arrays and numbers What were your thoughts on the regex-dna benchmark?

V8 is able to compile PCREs directly into efficient machine code (in some cases at least), CPython is not.

See: http://blog.chromium.org/2009/02/irregexp-google-chromes-new...

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#155

Post by woah »

romaniv wrote: post #107
twerquie wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no zealot, and don't think these are absolute truths by any means but I've worked extensively on enterprise solutions in both C#/.Net and Node.js and can respond to your points below. 1. It turns out the reactor pattern is a good way to build network servers that scale reasonably well with minimal developer effort. In my experience developers tend to avoid writing threaded code in synchronous languages, and threa…

I think your answers to 2-3 are not real answers. You're not giving an explanation that would convince someone who doesn't share your opinion. You're simply saying that you don't care about there concerns with nothing to demonstrate that your viewpoint is somehow more valid.

Are you really trying to get into a strong/weak typing argument here? Please. Take it elsewhere.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#156

Post by Kiro »

bad_user wrote: post #135
nwienert wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like people stick fingers in their ears and ignore the ecosystem whenever JS is mentioned. There's a wealth of transpilers and tools that fix all the problems mentioned here (if you even agree they are problems), and yet they are brought up every time. Weak types: Check out Facebook Flow or TypeScript. Global namespace: Not true with require/modules. Ambiguous/unexpected behavior... please explain? You could u…

Facebook Flow or TypeScript - still weak. On require/modules, that's a freaking mess. Ambiguous/unexpected behavior... nothing fixes it. To make matters worse, there's always the promise of some magical library or tool that's going to fix your problems, until you discover that it sucks, or that it is unmaintained, or that it doesn't interoperate with another library and then you're back to search between thousands of…

> Facebook Flow or TypeScript - still weak.

How is it weak?

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#157

Post by meowface »

oceanstone wrote: post #152
meowface wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

V8 does precompilation to native code and JIT optimization, which can typically turn numerical computations into efficient, and often highly optimized, machine code. These benchmarks seem to primarily be testing algorithms which require a lot of numerical computation and can take advantage of Javascript's typed arrays, which V8 is designed specifically to optimize. A somewhat more fair comparison would be V8 vs. PyPy…

> I also imagine (though am mostly speculating) that a benchmark involving a full-stack frontend framework like Angular or Ember, with hundreds or thousands of JS objects and lots of DOM manipulation, should put V8's performance a bit closer to CPython Interesting idea! How would we make a version of the benchmark for CPython though?

You couldn't do the DOM parts, but you could compare Python dicts with Javascript objects, and compare performance when there are a lot of heap allocations and GC calls.

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#158

Post by klochner »

mncolinlee wrote: post #140

I see a ton of discussion about the NodeJS decision and almost nothing about the more interesting industry paradigm shift to reactive programming and using functional-style programming in an imperative language. They're joining the likes of Facebook, Netflix, Square, Microsoft, Instagram, Khan Academy, SoundCloud, Trello, New York Times, and others in adopting reactive extensions.

Yahoo is moving to the React javascript library. The "react" in React js does not refer to reactive programming in the "Reactive Manifesto"[1] sense.

    [1] http://www.reactivemanifesto.org/

Re: Yahoo Mail moving to React

#160

Post by Kiro »

loxs wrote: post #20
__mrwhite__ wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any particular reason why you feel like server-side JavaScript feels fragile? Also if by DOM manipulation you mean libraries like jQuery, have you tried more declarative approaches found in frameworks like Angular and React?

Few reasons: 1. Cooperative multitasking. Really? In 2014? Hello? 2. Weakest of weak typing. undefined is not a function? Anyone? 3. Everyone can override everything. 4. Conventions, that's the only way you can build software in JS. Anyone know of a person who doesn't break conventions? Having programmed in something like Erlang, which IMHO is the sanest technology available today for doing web, JS feels horrible.

> Having programmed in something like Erlang, which IMHO is the sanest technology available today for doing web

Erlang feels very complicated. I mainly build simple CRUD apps. Would I still benefit from using Erlang?

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