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Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

robert.ocallahan.org

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Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#151

Post by youngtaff »

beagle3 wrote: post #141
pjmlp wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to see similar arguments given when Microsoft developers follow what their management orders them, but alas. Note, not picking on you, just Internet in general.

Every single case is different, but with with Microsoft it was corporate policy to do so - "Embrace, Extend, (Extinguish)", and it was executed again (MS-DOS vs. DR-DOS) and again (IE and Frontweb) and again. The old saying was "Windows is not done until Lotus won't run", and the DR-DOS case shows it might not have been an exaggeration

MS spent huge amounts to time and money making sure lots of programs with oddities and bugs worked successfully on Win XP - http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#153

Post by beagle3 »

youngtaff wrote: post #151
beagle3 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single case is different, but with with Microsoft it was corporate policy to do so - "Embrace, Extend, (Extinguish)", and it was executed again (MS-DOS vs. DR-DOS) and again (IE and Frontweb) and again. The old saying was "Windows is not done until Lotus won't run", and the DR-DOS case shows it might not have been an exaggeration

MS spent huge amounts to time and money making sure lots of programs with oddities and bugs worked successfully on Win XP - http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html

So? That's irrelevant to the discussion.

Google/Chrome also works hard to support "what's already out there", which is what you mention, but what we're discussing now is building on your supposedly-open-but-really-proprietary platform _against_ other players, whether that's policy or coincidental with constraints.

Microsoft spent effort making sure Windows itself WON'T run on DR DOS before that. They constantly ignored web standards after they won the browser wars (conveniently working well with Microsoft tools that produced non-standard markup, though) ... up until the moment they lost them again, at which point they started to pay attention to standards again.

With their last few releases, Google seems to be adopting this Microsoft style of evil. Some people defend that, and some don't.

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#154

Post by snlacks »

e12e wrote: post #117
cddotdotslash wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allow me to speak from the mindset of a consumer. The average consumer doesn't care about Firefox's data storage policies or how much they cooperate with the government. They care that things just work and are fast enough. For me, the convenience of Google Chrome comes from the fact that it is tightly integrated with all of Google services. I can use one Google account to log into my browser, access my email, set up…

I'd be much more interested in what you think personally, than what "a consumer" might think. I'm perfectly aware that a lot of the things that matter to me, doesn't seem to matter to a lot of people. Do I understand you correctly, in that: 1) You use gmail and Google calendar, therefore 2) You want your passwords, extensions, bookmarks and browser history synced by the same provider that provides your email and cale…

Anecdotal evidence: I work in an office with a lot of our companies non-technically inclined folks, and I would say: Yes, that is exactly how they feel. They want one password, and they want all their bookmarks and customization exactly as they are on every other computer they log in on without giving the computer or the software running on it any thought.

For work especially, calendar, email, hangouts, docs/drive... it saves us from needing more IT or training.

Edit: added "Anecdotal evidence:" to show awareness that I do not represent all cases. Also removed snark.

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#155

Post by thathonkey »

m_mueller wrote: post #121
swartkrans wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using Opera instead of Chrome. I use Chrome Canary for web dev, but Opera is basically Chrome sans-Google. It's got all the same features as Chrome as it's based on Chromium. Just none of the Google account features. I've also dumped gmail for fastmail and am trying out duckduckgo, but if that doesn't work out I'll just use Google in an incognito window.

I find duckduckgo quite usable for commonplace CS things such as programming in popular languages. For more obscure things I usually just enter g! [query] into my URL bar, so it will revert to an anonymous google. I find this better even just for the fact that I don't get the filtered down view of the world anymore - if there are things named similarly than the ones I use in the world, I want to know, so I can adjust…

What are you talking about? Totally lost after the first sentence here.

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#156

Post by afsina »

xooyoozoo wrote: post #92
Sephr wrote: post #89

Octane now includes asm.js benchmarks, and V8 doesn't attempt to support "use asm". This gives SpiderMonkey an advantage in the benchmark. I think it's quite impressive how close V8 is in performance to SpiderMonkey which actually goes out of it's way to support "use asm".

Octane is Google's own benchmark suite. I don't think getting beaten on your own hand-picked set of performance metrics satisfies any definition of "impressive".

It sure is far better than idiotic SunSpider. They are close to real-life application examples. If they really wanted to hand-pick they would not include asm.js benchmarks, where Firefox has a certain advantage.

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#157

Post by 0942v8653 »

sireat wrote: post #149
unicornporn wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try Startpage.com instead of Ddg. It will give you the the same results as Google, but with the privacy features of Ddg.

Startpage appears to have been around a while and seems relatively open. However, how does Startpage make money? In fact, how does DDG plan to make money?

DDG proxies ads from Bing and so they make some revenue from that. It's a small team so it seems to be enough (for now anyway).

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#158

Post by 0942v8653 »

oceanstone wrote: post #94
indygreg2 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you sign in to Chrome, your bookmarks and full browsing history are uploaded to Google's servers. Only your passwords are encrypted locally before being sent to Google. https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/1181035 contains info on how the encryption works. chrome://terms/ links to https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/privacy/ which links to http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/ to define "how we use…

Don't forget about omnibox predictions. By default, all keystrokes in the address bar are being sent, even while you're logged out. References: "Get predictions in the address bar" https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/95656?hl=en "Logging policies for omnibox predictions" https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/180655?hl=en

uhh… with any "omnibox" UI in any browser, every keystroke is sent to Google.

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#159

Post by ripdog »

thathonkey wrote: post #155
m_mueller wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find duckduckgo quite usable for commonplace CS things such as programming in popular languages. For more obscure things I usually just enter g! [query] into my URL bar, so it will revert to an anonymous google. I find this better even just for the fact that I don't get the filtered down view of the world anymore - if there are things named similarly than the ones I use in the world, I want to know, so I can adjust…

What are you talking about? Totally lost after the first sentence here.

DuckDuckGo has a 'bang' feature, where you add a bang like '!g' to search a different site directly.

For example, '!g hacker news' becomes 'https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hacker%20news'.

Re: Spidermonkey has passed V8 on Octane performance

#160

Post by shadowmint »

wyager wrote: post #106
jbkkd wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> safer software What makes Rust-written software safer?

It is effectively impossible to have an unsafe memory access error in Rust. The compiler eliminates a huge variety of bug types, including null pointer dereferences, use-after-free bugs, memory leaks, etc. All arrays are bounds-checked and rust encourages good programming practice like using abstracted list-processing mechanisms (like mapping instead of loops) and algebraic types instead of e.g. null pointers.

    It is effectively impossible to have an unsafe memory access error in Rust
Please, don't say that. Lets be reasonable. Rust is great, but Rust code crashes and segfaults too, just like any language, programs have bugs, and those bugs can cause program failure.

Rust just has less of them, because it has a smart compiler. ...but it's not right to suggest that it has none.

Remember:

There is no way of ensuring that a rust program does not result in a segmentation fault or other memory or race condition as a result of unsafe code.

There is no way of ensuring a rust program does not contain any unsafe code.

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