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What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

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Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#151

Post by nl »

rjsw wrote: post #150
nl wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd never rule out the (huge) role genetics play. But the culture and environment have a role too. You don't see many Kenyans dominating in cross country skiing or in road cycling which are both endurance sports where similar physical attributes are useful. Sports culture has a huge role. OTOH, there have been projects to see how Kenyans do in those sports. The small Nike-supported cross country skiing project wasn't…

A "Kenyan" has won the Tour de France.

So true... and kind of weird I didn't think to mention that!

I wonder if that counts as genetics or environment.

For those unfamiliar, the 2013 Tour De France winner Chris Froome was born in Kenya to British parents. He races under a British license and does not appear to share many genetic similarities to top Kenyan marathon runners. He's fairly tall (184cm), with significantly different facial features and skin tone.

OTOH, he has a pretty amazing ability to produce constantly high levels of power on long (30 minute+) climbs.

Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#152

Post by enchufadoo »

shijie wrote: post #112
enchufadoo wrote: post #96

I really like the Javascript Graphics used in this page to show statistics, anyone knows the library name if any?

Taking a quick look at the source, it looks like they're using Timeline Lite from Greensock http://greensock.com/timelinelite

Thank you.

Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#153

Post by [deleted] »

amaks wrote: post #121
Retric wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Distance Cycling is far more about endurance than a 2+h marathon. EX: Tour de france ~90h over 21 days. http://www.letour.com/le-tour/2014/us/overall-route.html

You're comparing apples to oranges. Riding multi-day bicycle race is completely different from the running a single marathon event. Some people run marathons every day, for a year ( http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/02/05/marathon.record.enge... ). It's hard to argue that that would require no less endurance than Tour de France (or Vuelta).

[deleted]

Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#154

Post by KobaQ »

andor wrote: post #147
KobaQ wrote: post #126

Unfortunately this article misses the third of the three components to improve endurance performance, which is lactate production rate (indicator for fat burning: the lower the more energy is produced by burning fat). Two athletes with the same VO2max and efficiency can have vastly different performances in a marathon. The body's VO2max potential can be used by solely burning carbs, which supply is limited (about 200…

lactate production rate (indicator for fat burning The body's VO2max potential can be used by solely burning carbs Actually you mixed them both up. In aerobic (with oxygen) exercise, you mostly burn fat. In anaerobic exercise, you burn glucose and glycogen and produce lactic acid through lactic acid fermentation. The important metric for anaerobic performance is not acid production rate, but acid tolerance of the mus…

To clarify my context: For a given effort, the body always uses anaerobic and aerobic systems. The higher the fraction of the energy from the anaerobic system, the higher the lactate production rate. The lower the lactate production rate, the more energy comes from burning fat.

Lactate can be further used to create ATP, but this process needs oxygen as well. Hence, a good VO2max helps to get rid of lactate, which was created in the anaerobic process. When measuring the lactate threshold by solely the lactate concentration, it's difficult to distinct between high production / high reduction and low production rates. Good VO2max can conceal weak fat burning abilities. Therefore often the lactate production rate by a given effort (typically maximum effort) is used as indicator for the fat burning capability.

(Hope that makes sense, English is not my native language :-) ...)

Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#155

Post by diimdeep » 

  ... data graphics were mainly devices for showing the obvious to the ignorant, 
  which led to two fruitless paths.  
  The graphics had to be alive, communicatively dynamic, overdecorated and 
  exaggerated (otherwise, the dullards would fall asleep)  
  The main task of graphical analysis was to detect and denounce deception 
  (because the dullards could not protect themselves)
Well, they hit the first one.

Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#156

Post by wging »

nl wrote: post #139
wging wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. EPO testing is now possible; it wasn't in the 1990s. That's why we saw dramatic increases in performance on the track in the 1990s. The real reason is more financial: see the graph of prize money referenced in the article, and also take a look at the current state of track 10,000m racing. More top talent is attracted to the marathon, away from the longer track races, than before.

It's true that record breaking has switch mostly from the track to the Marathon - probably because of financial reasons. But speeds haven't really slowed down (like they have in cycling). Cycling has a biological passport which (at worst) limits how much a doper can improve their blood chemistry. Athletics doesn't have that, and doing point checks isn't as effective as looking at changes.

I don't deny that doping still goes on, but people are forced to resort to less effective means than they used to. Take the example of Rashid Ramzi--it is likely that he was not the only doper, just a more aggressive one. Why was he caught when others were not?

> speeds haven't really slowed down

This isn't wholly true. Have you seen a 3:26.00 1500m, a 7:20 3000m, or a sub-12:40 5000m lately?

It's also untrue that athletics doesn't have a biological passport system. There are bans being handed out now for passport violations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natallia_Kareiva

Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#158

Post by signa11 »

x0x0 wrote: post #73
rcavezza wrote: post #18

I'm consistently surprised by what the human body is able to achieve. If you've never heard of ultra marathon runners, you should check out this episode of radiolab. This lady runs for days on end in ultramarathons. http://www.radiolab.org/story/122291-in-running/ It's intriguing that she suffered brain trauma and there's a part of her brain that doesn't function as expected. I expect there will be a marathon runner…

If you find ultras interesting, watch a documentary called _Running on the Sun_ (trailer [1]). It's about the badwater 135: a 135 mi course run in 120F weather through Death Valley with 13k cumulative feet of elevation gain [2]. The runners are insane. Current course records are just below 23 hours. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-e4bOLAuXg [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badwater_Ultramarathon

yeah badwater gets a lot of mention in the classic "born to run" book as well. i f you can spare a day or three, highly recommended.

Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#159

Post by jaxn »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #118
nl wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read "Running with the Kenyans"[1]. Euro/Asian/American runners might have nice tracks to train on, but they don't have things like training groups that include multiple Boston, NY and Berlin winners. That book is pretty eye opening read. The running culture is like nothing else - guys who come 3rd in the world 10,000m championship are hardly worth mentioning, high school races have better fields than US or European…

I read into your post the idea that it's training culture and not genetics that gets so many east africans into distance running success. Correct me if I'm wrong. Seems unlikely to me. 100m and 200m is thoroughly dominated by New World West Africans. Mid distance 400m to 1600m is pretty well split up between Africans, Whites, and East Asians. Whites actually seem to do well at 800m. I don't really know, but it seems…

Sprinting is THE sport of Jamaica.

Distance running is THE sport of East Africa.

As someone who trains somewhat competitively for marathons in a group, I can tell you that having people of similar ability to train with has a huge impact. As does having soft surfaces to run on and good weather.

Genetics may be in play, but it isn't the only thing in play.

Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#160

Post by alkonaut »

neves wrote: post #113

Fantastic article, but the imperial measures are a PITA. Kills the flow of reading to stop at each paragraph to translate the Fahrenheit degrees, the inches, the feet and the miles to reasonable measures.

This. Runners world mag is available everywhere around the world. Their website certainly is too. How about spendig 30seconds less on the animation and add a toggle for rest-of-world units instead of imperial?
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