Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#151

Post by tsenkov » Sun, Apr 13, 2014, 8:19 AM UTC

marcus_holmes wrote: post #101

gtCameron wrote: post #9

The question I would try and answer if I were in your shoes is the following: Does he want me to leave the company or does he want me to stop writing production code for the product? If its the first one, there is likely a personal issue between the two of you that needs to be resolved one way or another. If you think the second option is what he is really trying to communicate, then I would look for other opportunit…

agree completely. I'd have a frank discussion with him and attempt to determine if this is political. If it is, fire him immediately even if there's short-term pain because the politics will f k the company anyway. If it's not political, and you agree with his assessment of your production code, then there's an R&D role that probably needs filling and that you've already proven you can do - finding profitable market…

+1 on all pointers. That's what his co-founder is supposed to say. Unfortunately, failing to support each-other in such ugly cases, says much about the future (or the lack of one) of this partnership. :(

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#152

Post by madaxe_again » Sun, Apr 13, 2014, 8:40 AM UTC

tinco wrote: post #149

Bluestrike2 wrote: post #110

You need to hire an attorney, one who works in business litigation (if you can find someone specializing in minority shareholder disputes, that much the better). Right now. If you're delaying on this point out of some idea of wanting to "try to fix things first" or "not wanting to be the bad guy," you're just shooting yourself in the foot and downing blood thinners to keep the wound from clotting. Working with an att…

> There are two possibilities right off the bat: (i) the CEO is involved, which is likely given the difficulty involved in squeezing-out a shareholder + 50% co-founder; (ii) the CTO is working alone, hoping to push you out the door and benefit in some way from the resulting vacuum. Well aren't you mister negative here. If this guy was just an employee the tone of this thread would be very different. Every CTO knows t…

It always pays to take the worst case scenarios seriously. If you refuse to even consider them, when and if they turn out to be true, you find yourself utterly unprepared.

As to dead wood, as a cofounder and director this is his call too. Leaving the business may well be best for the business, and therefore best for him - so long as equity etc. is retained, although that's a dangerous position if you do not have or have only minority voting rights.

I am a 30 in a 30/30/40 company. I am terminally paranoid I'm due for the squeeze, so I plan for it and work against its possibility, as in my experience even your closest and best will apologetically drive in the knife, if the price is right. Pays to wear armour, in the format of contract law.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#153

Post by sillysaurus3 » Sun, Apr 13, 2014, 8:41 AM UTC

sergiosgc wrote: post #143

Bluestrike2 wrote: post #110

You need to hire an attorney, one who works in business litigation (if you can find someone specializing in minority shareholder disputes, that much the better). Right now. If you're delaying on this point out of some idea of wanting to "try to fix things first" or "not wanting to be the bad guy," you're just shooting yourself in the foot and downing blood thinners to keep the wound from clotting. Working with an att…

I'd go for a shorter version, but: yes, you are right on. Important points: 1. Have legal counsel 2. Deal with the issue now, not later. I'd get a lawyer and fire the CTO. Small teams require absolute trust, and that is now breached. You'll find out in the process how the CEO aligns. Give your partner a heads up, but don't let yourself be moved from the task of firing the CTO.

don't let yourself be moved from the task of firing the CTO

Would that have a chance of ripping the company apart if the CEO was agreeing with the CTO? It seems like there's probably nothing to gain from the corpse of a company, so would it be better to avoid that?

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#154

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 13, 2014, 8:43 AM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#155

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 13, 2014, 8:47 AM UTC

zobzu wrote: post #144

Hermel wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First and foremost, involving attorneys costs everyone a lot of time and money. Unless you want exactly that (maybe out of a desire to "punish" them), it's better to just leave.

Hey, I found the CTO ;-)

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#156

Post by smprk » Sun, Apr 13, 2014, 8:55 AM UTC

You should definitely follow the advice of getting a legal counsel and dealing with the issue now as opposed to later.

Also, you should

1. Clear your thoughts around what you want for your company at this point in time, in the near future, and in the long run.

2. Understand what role you envision yourself and your fellow co-founder playing in the above scheme of things.

3. With thoughts around these two areas cleared up, you should sit and talk about this with your co-founder at the earliest.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#157

Post by bowlofpetunias » Sun, Apr 13, 2014, 9:06 AM UTC

And here HN shows it's true colors. It's all about competence and meritocracy until it affects a founder.

I've seen companies being run into the ground because founders remained in positions they weren't competent for. My guess is the CTO has seen the same, and he has no intention of taking the fall for that.

No, he hasn't overstepped his boundaries, if this kind of situation continuous he may as well hand in his own resignation. He's doing what he's been hired to do.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#158

Post by richardw » Sun, Apr 13, 2014, 9:09 AM UTC

Aside from the legal aspect, there are two others I think are important.

1) As a founder, you need to do what's best for the company. Whatever that is.

2) You're one of the owners. If you didn't have all the skills required for every aspect, at least you showed up and it got done. You can hire in whatever skills you need, including bringing in a CTO who knows more than you did. Maybe you aren't the right person to run the technical side, etc, but don't be muscled out just because someone is better than you are. Frankly you and the CEO need to stick together - if it's that easy to separate you what stops him from being thrown to the curb when there's a better business guy?

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#159

Post by te_chris » Sun, Apr 13, 2014, 9:13 AM UTC

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #153

sergiosgc wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd go for a shorter version, but: yes, you are right on. Important points: 1. Have legal counsel 2. Deal with the issue now, not later. I'd get a lawyer and fire the CTO. Small teams require absolute trust, and that is now breached. You'll find out in the process how the CEO aligns. Give your partner a heads up, but don't let yourself be moved from the task of firing the CTO.

don't let yourself be moved from the task of firing the CTO Would that have a chance of ripping the company apart if the CEO was agreeing with the CTO? It seems like there's probably nothing to gain from the corpse of a company, so would it be better to avoid that?

He's not the only one who has to consider whether or not the company becomes a corpse in this situation though. Sounds like he's one of two founders, likely with some investors on board. All of these people (without the CTO who I'm guessing has no board seat and needs to shut up and learn his place) are tasked with ensuring the company has a future. Given that, the various parties are all equally responsible if they use this situation to tank the company.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#160

Post by random42 » Sun, Apr 13, 2014, 9:17 AM UTC

tinco wrote: post #149

Bluestrike2 wrote: post #110

You need to hire an attorney, one who works in business litigation (if you can find someone specializing in minority shareholder disputes, that much the better). Right now. If you're delaying on this point out of some idea of wanting to "try to fix things first" or "not wanting to be the bad guy," you're just shooting yourself in the foot and downing blood thinners to keep the wound from clotting. Working with an att…

> There are two possibilities right off the bat: (i) the CEO is involved, which is likely given the difficulty involved in squeezing-out a shareholder + 50% co-founder; (ii) the CTO is working alone, hoping to push you out the door and benefit in some way from the resulting vacuum. Well aren't you mister negative here. If this guy was just an employee the tone of this thread would be very different. Every CTO knows t…

> So how about a third option: They are just trying to cut out dead weight from the company.

"They?" -> is the non-founder _employee_, with much less stake in company's future than the said founder.

"Dead weight?" -> is the founder who put his life savings in the venture, and is obviously desirable till the next round of funding.

A more reasonable "don't-conflict-ignorance-with-malice" would be that CTO has technical acumen but not business, and is judging the OP harshly on the technical merit.