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Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

teamrarebit.com

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Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#151

Post by transitionality »

tommorris wrote: post #30
evertonfuller wrote: post #5

Irrelevant of any feelings towards being gay or not. Surely this is a form of oppression in itself. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, whether you approve of them or not, and so by effectively black-mailing others to conform to your perceived social 'right'. I see this as a sad attempt at press. Having never heard of this company or product before.

> black-mailing Translation: not putting an app in an app store.

Translation: trying to start a witch hunt against someone based on their political stance and trying to disenfranchise them of their livelihood.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#152

Post by m0skit0 »

urbanautomaton wrote: post #100
DatBear wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how this is a direct action taken to alienate a community. Seems like they're alienating themselves just fine.

Well, let me help you out. Brendan Eich choosing to pay actual money (taking a direct action) to oppose the existence of gay marriage (alienating a large community) is what I'm referring to.

You said it: Brendan Eich. In his free time. As an individual person. Mozilla has nothing to do with what this guy does in his free time (and I hope it doesn't).

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#153

Post by transitionality »

wpietri wrote: post #149
transitionality wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'm holding you accountable for trying to get him fired.

Oh gosh! Some anonymous coward is holding me accountable for something I'm not actually trying to do! I'm quivering.

Yes, you're trying to do exactly this.

What's the endgame for this ridiculous charade? It's to get Brendan Eich fired.

You're aiding and abetting it. Hence, you're trying to get him fired.

Actions have consequences, and I'm holding you accountable for yours.

Feel free to find a fault with any section of the reasoning.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#154

Post by TheAceOfHearts »

I should start this off by saying I believe gay couples should be allowed to get married. I cannot fathom what reasoning you can use to say that gay people should not be allowed to marriage. However, the more I learn about the topic, the more I realize it's actually very complicated.

With that being said... Marriage seems screwed up. Why do we have unions of two people? Why don't we allow the union of three people? Or more? Where do we draw the line? What if some guy/gal wants to marry his waifu/husbando, or another person wants to marry their car?

People say stuff about the sanctity of marriage, but it seems like a horrible joke. Look at divorce rates! Traditional marriage looks like a joke.

I'll admit I'm not very well educated on the topic, I'd love to hear the reasoning for these limitations. Maybe it would make sense to just break out the benefits [1] into more types of unions. For example, I can see how you might not want to allow a 5 person marriage where only 1 person has citizenship in the US; then you would have four people gaining citizenship at the same time.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_...

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#155

Post by hrktb »

I have a hard time understanding all the call for separating private and work. The issue brought by this post is not private (in the sense that the donations were public) and the purpose of the donation was to make a private view to pass into law, not just express some personal opinion.

Also, the position of a CEO on social issues has non negligible impacts on the organization. He won't block Mozilla from hiring gay people of course, but nobody would expect him to actively push gay peoples' rights inside the organization if these were not upheld enough. Or does Mozilla have full parity when it comes to married gays and married hetero couples ? Will married gay people get to work intimately with the new CEO (and not just as a token gay people in the team)?

These are all legitimate questions. Perhaps Eich won't be worse than anyone else on these issues, but now his public karma is negative. If from here Mozilla appeared to be championing gay rights and parity more than ever before, then I think team rarebit would revise their position. But until then their reaction, while emotionally charged, seems fair enough※ and sends the right message.

※ especially as in anyway they are bound to build for Mozilla's platform nor use Mozilla's products.

PS: From Mozilla's donation page : "At the heart of Mozilla is a global community with a shared mission—to build the Internet the world needs. Support Mozilla with a donation today—for a better web and a better world."

I think a lot of people really see Mozilla as organization with strong moral stance, and actually working towards making the world better. Visceral reactions on events like this one are the flip side of the coin.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#156

Post by transitionality »

wpietri wrote: post #148
transitionality wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every social justice warrior is a bigot by definition. Thankfully, your kind is a very tiny percentage of the population.

I guess 87% of the population is pretty tiny in your world: http://www.gallup.com/poll/163697/approve-marriage-blacks-wh... Also, I think it's awesome I get to qualify as a warrior by sitting in a cafe and pointing out basic legal facts to people. Pew pew! I'm a warrior! 'Scuse me while I go beat my chest and shop for bandoliers.

That link is completely irrelevant.

Social justice warriors are defined by the bigoted views they hold that they try to pass off as anti-bigotry, such as the view that men, white people and hetero people can't be discriminated against.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#157

Post by it_learnses »

transitionality wrote: post #46
it_learnses wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just them or their puzzle game. It's not just gay people either. It's everybody who wants everyone to be treated equally and not be denied their humanity. The CEO's values fly in the face of Mozilla's values. That's why he should be shown the exit door.

They're certainly not treating Brendan Eich equally. Discrimination on the basis of political stance is bigotry, too. Their position is extremely hypocritical, and by defending it, you become complicit in their hypocrisy.

How are they not treating Brendan Eich equally? He's the bigot here who wants to deny them happiness, not the other way around.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#158

Post by urbanautomaton »

parennoob wrote: post #54
m0skit0 wrote: post #6

I understand your posture and I totally support gay marriage, but you're mixing politics with work, and you're taking a personal issue to a professional level. It's Brendan Eich that supported the prop 8, not Mozilla. That's a very very very VERY unprofessional stance. From now on I will be very careful in buying/getting anything from your company because of huge lack of professionalism being shown here. This said, I…

This statement "However, this particular subject is not one that is negotiable to us. We are personally affected by his actions." should make people very skittish about using Team Rarebit's code or services in production, specially if they ever make something that your app infrastructure is dependent on (like payment systems or APIs). I understand that right now, it's some tiny app that doesn't affect too many people…

Weighed in the balance:

1. the right of gay people to get married

2. our personal right to pay money to bigots using specific money-transfer services

I'll be honest, I keep re-rolling, and it keeps coming up 1. What am I doing wrong?

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#159

Post by zanny »

transitionality wrote: post #103
drhayes9 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discrimination of what kind? They are not publishing an app in an app store. Are they discriminating against Mozilla? Are they blocking Mozilla browsers from their site? Are people being persecuted, imprisoned, or killed for using Firefox? Are they working to put Eich in an internment camp based on his beliefs? The word "bigotry" is a very big stick to swing against two people who could be killed in many parts of the…

They are actively working to disenfranchise Brendan Eich of his employment. They are doing this on the basis of his political stance. This is bigotry. They are bigots. What's worse, they're hypocritical bigots, because they're trying to pass this off as some sort of anti-bigotry stance. All social justice is like this. It breaks down under the merest of scrutinty.

> They are doing this on the basis of his political stance.

They are doing this because he directly funded initiatives that withhold equal rights from them and treat them as less than human. You can hold views, even as CEOs, I don't agree with. Hell, you could donate to the anti-funds of almost anything I believe, as long as it is an equal battlefield. But civil rights aren't about ideology, they are literally whether or not you recognize other humans as being humans and deserving the same rights as you.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#160

Post by m0skit0 »

bronson wrote: post #81
transitionality wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there isn't. A CEO is an employee, just one that tends to get paid above average.

And one that steers the direction of the company every single day. Mere employees don't.

Still, what has that to do with personal beliefs? If he's a professional he will know to keep his personal beliefs out of his work. And if his beliefs interfere with his Mozilla's work, then I would agree on boycotting him and Mozilla. Until then, that's a private personal opinion which I absolutely don't care about.
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