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It Is Time For Basic Income

hawkins.ventures

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Re: It Is Time For Basic Income

#151

Post by IgorPartola »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #135

US specific: * 2014 total US gov't spending: $6.3T (36.4% of GDP) * # of Americans: 314m (2012) * Cost to provide $10,000 per year to everyone: $3.14T * Current US military spending: $0.8T * Current US education spending: $1T * Basic income + education + mil = $4.94T * $4.94T vs $6.3T [1] http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/

What about Medicare/Medicaid? Those are pretty much essential at this point and the $10k will not even begin to cover insurance premiums for the elderly.

Also don't forget that a huge number of the people work for the federal government and the budget you are citing includes their salaries. For a large percentage of the population, your proposal would mean poverty.

Simple math like this does not work on a system as complex as this. While I agree with the premise, your calculation is off.

Re: It Is Time For Basic Income

#153

Post by acchow »

dicroce wrote: post #69

Here's the thing: I believe that millions of years of evolution have baked into every living thing a deep need to work, and we'll feel bad if we don't (because for millions of years lazyness meant death). We need to struggle. Further, I think we need to bad times to help us recognize the good times and a basic income would do much to soften those bad times... I worry that Basic Income is in the long term practically…

Furthermore, we expect others to work and respect them based on what they do.

I believe that a basic income may make life easier, but it will make it all that much harder to reach equality of respect, equality of dignity.

Re: It Is Time For Basic Income

#154

Post by MBlume »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #143
chavesn wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, one small difference, you have to be a resident of Alaska for at least a year, intend to remain a permanent resident and not be absent more than 180 days without a valid reason. [1] [1]: http://pfd.alaska.gov/Eligibility/EligibilityRequirements

In what way is that a difference?

Living in Alaska for a year is a steeper obstacle than living most places.

Re: It Is Time For Basic Income

#155

Post by [deleted] »

sukuriant wrote: post #115
Meekro wrote: post #107

People becoming "unemployable" because of robots is one of the most common arguments in favor of this, and that argument is nonsense because actual skilled jobs are not going away. Will a robot fix your car when it breaks? Will it be designing new and better cars? Will it even design the automation systems that let those new cars be built more efficiently? Will those robots provide legal advice to the companies that…

But the number of people that want / need to do those visionary / human-centric jobs (though I would not consider all of those jobs as necessarily human) is lower than the number of people that would be seeking employment without a system for basic income; and, as long as it's pennies to get a person to do those low-income jobs, they're not likely to be automated away

[deleted]

Re: It Is Time For Basic Income

#156

Post by _Robbie »

whyme wrote: post #48

Obviously this is not a new idea... Twenty years ago I sat around with college mates, in Canada, listing the merits of the "Guaranteed Income" and quite frankly I still support the idea today. If you took all the salaries, property and operations cost associated with distributing old age security, welfare, disability, unemployment wages etc etc, it would probably pay for much of the cost associated with the Guarantee…

I support the basic income, but I have also thought about alternatives that do not require government support. Consider e-currency with a time based demurrage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demurrage_(currency)) fee. The demurrage fees would be paid out equally to all consumers. The demurrage fee plays the same role as a job in the current economy by circulating currency from producers to consumers. Since it is an e-currency, it would be independent of governments. The good news is that if in the future wealth inequality causes economic output to shrink, businesses might be forced to accept these types of currencies in order to grow.

Re: It Is Time For Basic Income

#157

Post by ahomescu1 »

Meekro wrote: post #107

People becoming "unemployable" because of robots is one of the most common arguments in favor of this, and that argument is nonsense because actual skilled jobs are not going away. Will a robot fix your car when it breaks? Will it be designing new and better cars? Will it even design the automation systems that let those new cars be built more efficiently? Will those robots provide legal advice to the companies that…

> Will robots patrol the streets and keep you safe from crime? Will they prosecute people who hurt others, or preside over those trials to make sure everyone's rights are protected?

Hah, that's exactly Robocop (in Detroit 2029).

Re: It Is Time For Basic Income

#158

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

dicroce wrote: post #69

Here's the thing: I believe that millions of years of evolution have baked into every living thing a deep need to work, and we'll feel bad if we don't (because for millions of years lazyness meant death). We need to struggle. Further, I think we need to bad times to help us recognize the good times and a basic income would do much to soften those bad times... I worry that Basic Income is in the long term practically…

Hard work is a recent invention. It arrived with the farming revolution a mere 10-12k years ago.

Before that, humans as foragers are believed to have worked about 20hrs per week, if they so chose.

Re: It Is Time For Basic Income

#159

Post by MBlume »

dlubarov wrote: post #36
a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #25

If anything like basic income happens expect immigration to be halted and birthright citizenship grants to be ended. The value and meaning of citizenship will rapidly change and tolerance for outsiders taking a slice of the pie will rapidly plunge. I think there will be a lot of ramifications like this that most people probably aren't considering.

But the pie grows larger as more people enter the economy (though it may be sublinear).

The pie grows larger as people enter the economy who were brought there by the desire to get a free income? I support the proposal, but come on

Re: It Is Time For Basic Income

#160

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

IgorPartola wrote: post #151
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #135

US specific: * 2014 total US gov't spending: $6.3T (36.4% of GDP) * # of Americans: 314m (2012) * Cost to provide $10,000 per year to everyone: $3.14T * Current US military spending: $0.8T * Current US education spending: $1T * Basic income + education + mil = $4.94T * $4.94T vs $6.3T [1] http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/

What about Medicare/Medicaid? Those are pretty much essential at this point and the $10k will not even begin to cover insurance premiums for the elderly. Also don't forget that a huge number of the people work for the federal government and the budget you are citing includes their salaries. For a large percentage of the population, your proposal would mean poverty. Simple math like this does not work on a system as c…

1. Firing government workers in droves does not in fact lead to poverty.

Example: Release of hundreds of thousands of conscript soldiers after WWII. Many economists predicted catastrophe. This did not happen.

2. Elderly health care: You legalize private cheap insurance for the elderly. The poor elderly can use that. The non-poor elderly can get fancier coverage should they so choose.

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