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Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

teslamotors.com

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Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#151

Post by [deleted] »

rst wrote: post #108
peeters wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the distribution mechanism in itself affect the quality? It's just a way of getting new software on the car. You can have the exact same standards of quality for an update installed over the air as one installed at a service centre.

For one thing, an OTA update mechanism is obviously more subject to third-party spoofing than an update delivered by physical ethernet from the dealership. (BTW, do Teslas apply OTA updates while the car is underway, or store them up for application when parked? If the former, then applying even a correct update to a car in motion could have all sorts of nasty consequences if it resulted in a sudden change to, say, r…

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#152

Post by gergles »

strlen wrote: post #104
sheetjs wrote: post #31

> the auto dealer franchise laws were originally put in place for a just cause and are now being twisted to an unjust purpose ... and Christie can argue that allowing Tesla creates a slippery slope whereby Ford and GM and other companies end up crushing the franchisees that the law intended to protect. Musk is trying to find a middle ground that just doesn't exist unless you accept governments creating one-off laws t…

There is no slippery slope here if the law is states something like: "contracts between existing de-facto oligarchy of car manufacturers and dealers remain as is, new entrants are free to set their own terms". Everyone is talking about how we can't trust Elon Musk since he is acting in his rational self-interest. Yet why should we assume that Christie is acting out of the pure goodness of the heart? Politicians too a…

> One-off laws for specific legal entities (individuals or corporations) are unconstitutional, so no one is asking for a law that exempts Tesla and Tesla only.

As an aside, that's actually not true - laws that are intended to benefit one person are passed all the time. [1]

What the constitution forbids are bills of attainder, which are bills that declare a person guilty of a crime.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_bill#United_States

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#153

Post by stcredzero »

kyrra wrote: post #124
digikata wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a dealership middle man is providing so much value to the customer, why then does it need any legislative protection? Real estate agents are a bad example, as that industry is also dug in with legislative protections against more competitive business models.

NPR said it was due to Ford and other auto makers back in the 1920-1930 bullying dealerships. Ford threatened to cancel their business contracts with dealership if the dealerships didn't buy cars that they knew they couldn't sell. During that time, Ford kept their lines running at full capacity even though demand didn't warrant it. The states decided to step in and protect their local dealerships from the megacorp th…

NPR said it was due to Ford and other auto makers back in the 1920-1930 bullying dealerships.

Why in heck do we let software companies bully OEMs?

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#154

Post by ghaff »

larrys wrote: post #84

"An even bigger conflict of interest with auto dealers is that they make most of their profit from service, but electric cars require much less service than gasoline cars. There are no oil, spark plug or fuel filter changes, no tune-ups and no smog checks needed for an electric car." Well then what about BMW with bumper to bumper service as only one example. That's a high end car that you don't pay for service for (i…

More to the point, the things he mentions are not very expensive service items--to say nothing of the fact that there's no particularly compelling reason to have them done at the dealer if you don't want to. (And talking about "tune-ups" is pretty close to an anachronism at this point.)

Tesla, on the other hand, does have all its new electric car components which are all very impressive technically but about which relatively little is yet known about service life and long-term service costs.

Really, this is about Musk wanting control over the complete experience. Nothing wrong with that (see, e.g., Apple). And I'm no particular fan of the auto dealer experience. (Though I don't buy luxury brands today which, I've been told, unsurprisingly offer a better dealer experience in general.) But you'll end up with dealers of some sort one way or the other.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#155

Post by r00fus »

stcredzero wrote: post #112
protomyth wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although personally satisfying for the writer, that is a pretty good example of something never to write in a letter that you want to positively influence a situation. Referring to a scandal by a politician when lobbying isn't really going to work, and all letters addresses "to the people" are lobbying.

that is a pretty good example of something never to write in a letter that you want to positively influence a situation. Right. It does close the door to Christie deciding to do a turnaround and adopt the issue as a crusader for the people. Actually, considering that Gov. Christie is a politically powerful man with an apparent history of underhanded retaliation, I think it's really the last thing you want to do.

Alternative viewpoint: Christie may already be on his way out or on his way to becoming a lame duck. Musk clearly sees no future for Tesla as long as Christie's admin is calling the shots.

Remember, this letter is to "the people of new jersey" and not "the current governor of new jersey". Musk is choosing his venue, the court of public opinion - an arena where Christie is taking some major hits.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#156

Post by dragonwriter »

bfe wrote: post #142
Jgrubb wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't Crony Capitalism an accurate term for this? Seems like exactly the term to me.

Because it's all crony, no capitalism.

> Because it's all crony, no capitalism.

Well, except that it demonstrates exactly the characteristics of the system in which the holders of capital hold society captive to their interests which led to its criticism by the people who coined the term "capitalism" for that system.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#157

Post by stcredzero »

error54 wrote: post #87
stcredzero wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An even bigger conflict of interest with auto dealers is that they make most of their profit from service I am old enough to remember what owning a car was like when things were changing away from mechanical devices one could understand and tinker with and becoming nondescript hunks of plastic you had to buy from a manufacturer. (I'm talking about the ignition system, as one specific example.) There was always a bit…

Funny enough, quite a few programmers who have become burned out with the mainstream tech industry move into automotive related industries as cars are becoming more and more computer driven.

I think I bought my "frugal-mobile" from one of them.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#158

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

jusben1369 wrote: post #29

Musk is massively disingenuous and rather insulting to our intelligence. But he's a heck of a salesman and makes a wonderful car. Like many persuasive people he arrives at an answer and backs into rationale but makes it appear the other way around. I'll give you just one example. The law of the land in NJ is that you can't sell in NJ unless through a dealership. That's the current law. Those laws need to change to al…

Misled? There is a bullshit law on the books he wants repealed.

I have no idea where you came up with this line of thought.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#159

Post by Goronmon »

larrys wrote: post #103
jusben1369 wrote: post #29

Musk is massively disingenuous and rather insulting to our intelligence. But he's a heck of a salesman and makes a wonderful car. Like many persuasive people he arrives at an answer and backs into rationale but makes it appear the other way around. I'll give you just one example. The law of the land in NJ is that you can't sell in NJ unless through a dealership. That's the current law. Those laws need to change to al…

"Musk is massively disingenuous and rather insulting to our intelligence. But he's a heck of a salesman " Agree. And makes you wonder a bit about the marketing materials surrounding these cars, huh? He's trying to make as if he's acting in the best interest of the people of the state of NJ. When it is very clear that his motivation is his own interests and selling his car. And making more money for himself. Most busi…

He's trying to make as if he's acting in the best interest of the people of the state of NJ. When it is very clear that his motivation is his own interests and selling his car.

I don't see how these goals are mutually exclusive. And saying that he wants to sell his car is falling into the realm of ridiculously obvious.

Most businesses don't make it that obvious.

Really? Most business make merely a token effort at pretending every action they take isn't just about the bottom line. I don't see how pandering to customers makes one business any 'better' than another.

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