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Goodbye Academia

anothersb.blogspot.co.uk

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Re: Goodbye Academia

#151

Post by andreasvc »

mjn wrote: post #145
bradleyjg wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called the tournament model. Big law firms are the classic example. A related theory is that technology and globalization has, and will, make more and more industries 'winner take all'.

I wonder if there are high-profile areas that don't follow that model currently? Given that we're on HN, startups are another example that comes to mind, with the entire VC industry based around trying to hit those rare 100x (or 1000x) exits, and plenty of people happily willing to work towards the small odds of being the one.

Perhaps the free software movement and wisdom of the crowds phenomena such as wikipedia are a counterpoint? While both have big players with more influence, it's not a zero sum game as there is room for people to work on long tail stuff.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#152

Post by cma »

prirun wrote: post #150
naterator wrote: post #4

These kinds of things are daily discussions in laboratories all over the world. Everyone knows there's no future in academia, and so everyone is looking for an exit plan. I actively discourage people from doing a PhD. Academia is a horrible feudalistic system that doesn't pay well enough to keep the bright minds it attracts. There is no sense in being a post-doc for life. Much better to take that hedge fund job. The…

The medical / pharma industry is not interested in cures for diseases; they only want lifelong treatments. True capitalists, seeking maximum profit.

What's the distinction? Whether they sell a thousand symptom suppression pills over a lifetime at $20 or 1 cure pill at $20,000 what does it matter? Are you saying people literally pay by pill count? Patents are monopolies, they don't charge the marignal production cost of one pill while they hold a patent, they charge what the market will pay.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#153

Post by pseut »

dnautics wrote: post #55

I quit my second postdoc to launch a nonprofit research institute (we did not get funding, and are retrying later this year). I currently drive for lyft - and make more money than I did as a postdoc, with far fewer hours and better working conditions. This makes economic sense; it's not clear to me that what I was doing as a scientist was really doing society any good, at least as a late night driver I'm 1) giving pe…

If you graduated in 2009, you got screwed. I'm sorry.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#154

Post by Fomite »

_delirium wrote: post #138
jseliger wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the allures of academia is the prospect of doing fundamental research It's also a false allure: the problem is that fundamental research requires funding, and the OP is pointing out that he can't get it. He'll be in essence locked out of research and not make a lot of money at it. This is like saying, "One of the allures of acting is the prospect of being famous and sleeping with lots of fans." On the one hand…

> the problem is that fundamental research requires funding In biology, yeah, although I think what a lot of people here are doing is reading stories about high-capital-cost fields (experimental physics, biochem, etc.) and then applying it to their own field, which on HN is mostly computer science. CS research really does not require a lot of funding, outside of specific areas (mostly hardware and robotics stuff). Al…

The biggest cost of my computational grants are funding for people. They don't go away just because you can pay for AWS on a credit card.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#155

Post by Fomite »

pekk wrote: post #74
newaccountfool wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you completely miss the point of why a lot of people do a PHD. The love of the subject. Also, the pay after gaining a PHD in a certain field is most certainly worth it.

People say this kind of thing when they don't have experience of what it's actually like. A PhD is not a continuation of undergraduate or independent study in a subject. It is a career with the tedium of other careers, and then some because so many other people are trying to do the same thing you are. You may love the subject now, but that doesn't mean you are going to be able to do the research you want. At various…

This. If you love a subject, go and spend a lot of time at a library. Fondness for a subject is a prerequisite for getting a PhD, but is very, very far from being sufficient.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#156

Post by Fomite »

santaclaus wrote: post #148
pseut wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Could these guys make more money in private sector? Yes, maybe 5-7 times as much. The people you're talking about are exceptional. (How is UNC mid-range?)

> Yes, maybe 5-7 times as much. I do not think we are arguing here. My point is that good professors and good universities have a solid quality of life. Whether this reward system is the best for society in the long term is another question. > How is UNC mid-range? It ain't no Ivy.

> It ain't no Ivy.

...and I stop taking you seriously.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#157

Post by Fomite »

santaclaus wrote: post #141
amark wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody gets tenure anymore. Most stay as associate professors, and make 60-70k.

It's usually a big deal when a professor fails to make tenure at a respectable university. I can think of multiple case studies at MIT and Stanford. Departments look bad when they are forced to drop promising talent.

It's becoming far more common.

More importantly, there are far more positions being created that aren't on tenure track in the first place.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#158

Post by Fomite »

dredmorbius wrote: post #86
bduerst wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slippery Slope: If it wasn't for obscure scientific research, almost nothing we know would exist. It doesn't mean that obscure scientific research has the same market value as almost everything.

Oxygen has little market value, nor does language. Market value is a measure of many things. Net benefit to civilization isn't one of them.

> Oxygen has little market value

Don't tell that to the atmospheric gas industry.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#159

Post by bradleyjg »

mjn wrote: post #145
bradleyjg wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called the tournament model. Big law firms are the classic example. A related theory is that technology and globalization has, and will, make more and more industries 'winner take all'.

I wonder if there are high-profile areas that don't follow that model currently? Given that we're on HN, startups are another example that comes to mind, with the entire VC industry based around trying to hit those rare 100x (or 1000x) exits, and plenty of people happily willing to work towards the small odds of being the one.

Doctors are a counterexample. While there are certainly richer and more prestigious specialties than others, once you hit medical school there's not much attrition. Then once you make MD even the lower paid specialties are pretty well paid, and have great job security. It's not like BigLaw where getting in the door is only the first step and there's a long way to fall.

Re: Goodbye Academia

#160

Post by salemh »

a_olt wrote: post #114
tibbon wrote: post #108

My girlfriend right now is trying to figure out her postdoc in neuroscience. While I fully support her passion, the industry of academia seems completely irrational from almost every sense and full of traps. While the end goal of a tenured professor is exceedingly stable, getting there requires heroic acts of risk, going with the flow and instability that even when compared with the world of startups seems insane. Af…

Sorry, just wondering, does your last sentence have a typo? >>Whereas if you leave your CS PhD, you can get a job at a startup... there are few places that are dying to hire PhD dropouts. thanks.

I believe tibbon meant CS PhD in relation to non-CS (ala, Neuroscience).

Fixed (perhaps):

>>Whereas if you leave your CS PhD, you can get a job at a startup... there are few places that are dying to hire non-CS PhD dropouts.

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